Inside look at some of Dolphins' young players and Ross' decisions ### Guard/tackle Dallas Thomas: Last season’s third-round pick didn’t show nearly enough to earn playing time (just two snaps all season), despite the offensive line’s deficiencies. “He’s got a lot of physical upside but needs to mature as a professional,” a team source said. “He can be a quality backup at least. I don’t know if he has the intangibles to be a starter. It was disappointing that he didn’t [show enough] to play.” Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...s-defense-on-donofrio-heat.html#storylink=cpy
Barry Jackson Sports Buzz 02/09 - '13 draft class in 2014, Ross, Hickey, RBs http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...changes-goldens-defense-on-donofrio-heat.html Well it can't possibly be any worse. lol what an idiot. Yea I'm sure Ireland and Philbin liked each other when they first started working together too.
To be fair, I don't think at this point last offseason they would have projected Olivier Vernon to be a starter either.
If you look at Jordan's upper body, he's very muscular. But he's tall and relatively lanky, it is what it is, the dude is 6-6. He has a high center of gravity, the simple solution is to put him at his best, most natural position- OLB. If the coaches love Misi at OLB on early downs, great- put Jordan at OLB opposite Misi and bench Wheeler. A high salary doesn't mean that Wheeler should start if he sucks, and he sucks. Maybe Jordan plays some DE to spell Vernon or Wake, but he belongs at OLB, and Wheeler belongs on the bench, and waived next year.
Ireland reportedly wanted to hire Mike McCoy who got the job in SD rather than Joe Philbin. I'd say Ireland probably felt Philbin was an issue from the get go. Ross of no football background went with his guy over Ireland's so I think some resentment was probably present from the beginning.
I doubt Dion Jordan would be very effective as an off-the-line OLB. IMO, I think that Kevin Coyle probably envisions him as equivalent to Michael Johnson when he was in Cincinnati, just with the ability to matchup better coverage-wise. I think ideally if you can develop Jordan as an open-side end you can really do a lot with him in this defense. They've already shown that with Olivier Vernon. I think eventually you have to hope Jordan develops and overtakes OV as that starting DE and you can use OV as a 3rd rusher that can reduce down a la Wallace Gilberry and Robert Geathers did when Coyle was with the Bengals.
Not a fan but I don't hate him, dislike Ross far more, I think he should have given Caserio the authority to make a change if he saw fit. Instead he tried to force Philbin on these guys, which cost us the top candidates, just like forcing Ireland on the coaches cost us the top candidates 2 years ago.
Why? What evidence do you have that Jordan wouldn't be effective as an off the line OLB? I know of none. What I do know of is Jordan getting somewhat manhandled by OTs in college and the pros, especially ridden out wide as he pass rushes from a DE position. He's better in space than any other Dolphins LB except for maybe Jelani Jenkins. He'd make a fine OLB imo, his problem is not just being relatively thin for a DE, but for having his relatively low weight spread over a 6-6, high center of gravity frame.
Considering some of the things revealed about him lately, I'm just not sure he's got the football IQ for it. Essentially to this point he's been an open-side player or he's played in simple zone-drops or man-to-man coverages when he's played LB in sub packages. With playing Wheeler's position he's going to have to read a guard and whether he blocks at him or away from him. He's going to have to read a back if he's on the weakside, and he's at the very least going to have an open window vs. closed window read, which you don't have when you're on the open side of a defense. That spells "helmet fire" to me. Plus, playing him inserted in a 30 or 40 technique he's going to be taking on guards or tackles head-up and or dealing with scrape blocks and his height automatically puts him at a disadvantage when you're in a phone booth, which is what he'd be facing if in Wheeler's position. Jordan's at his best when he can get straight up the field or has a simplified coverage responsibility; you don't want your best athlete sitting there in a phone booth thinking through his keys. As far as him being on the edge, I think it's pretty well known that Jason Taylor played DE at about 240lbs for a good stretch of his career. I think if he's able to use his natural length and get stronger, you can teach him how to use that and create more leverage. He's familiar with playing on the edge and as an one the line of scrimmage LB. Why take him away from it and start him off a square one? I just don't see the value in it both from the viewpoint of maximizing what Jordan's good at and building on that, as well as from the financial standpoint of the contracts already at LB. I get putting him as a SAM OLB in this defense, but I think Koa Misi pretty much holds a monopoly on that, rightly or wrongly, in the eyes of the coaching staff. If you could put Jordan there and move Misi to where Wheeler's playing, I think it'd work, but that's moving around a lot of parts and even then I don't think Misi could do it as effectively.
To demonstrate that, take a look at this play from this past year vs. the Steelers. It's later in the season when Miami's run defense started performing better, up until wilting the final two weeks of the season. This play is a microcosm of what plagued them this past year and I doubt putting Dion Jordan where Philip Wheeler is in this play is going to produce a better result. Pittsburgh motions into an offset I formation strong to their right, Miami's left. The Dolphins are in a standard Under front with Vernon at RDE, Odrick at 3T, Soliai at 1T and Wake at LDE. Wheeler is lined up as a true Will in a 40 technique with Ellerbe up the middle and Koa Misi as true SAM outside of Wake. Pittsburgh runs a weakside counter play with the RG and FB pulling back to the left. The result is a 5 or 6 yard gain with Koa Misi coming across the the whole formation to make the tackle with Chris Clemons. Some key things to watch: 1) Jared Odrick gets doubled at the snap and goes to a kneed to try and split the double team and almost gets himself back into the play. Paul Soliai does a nice arm-over move and reads the RG DeCastro pulling but gets caught up on the leg of the center and the double team block on Odrick spilling the play outside which is the proper technique. Cameron Wake and Koa Misi take on the RT and TE respectively and set the edge. 2) Olivier Vernon reads the open window but doesn't get up field far enough to wrong-arm DeCastro who is pulling around. If he does that, he forces LeVeon Bell back into the pile for a minimal gain. Or, he forces Bell outside giving Philip Wheeler a shot at making the tackle for no gain. He didn't play it correctly, but played it well enough to give Wheeler a 1-on-1 tackle chance. If OV makes his step harder up the field he doesn't get pinned back inside by DeCastro's counter block. This is where I think having someone with the length and athleticism of Jordan could have helped this play. 3) Philip Wheeler does everything right, he reads the double team on Odrick and moves outside; standard closed window read and squares up to tackle Bell. He did everything right, took the right steps, though I'd argue his step should have been harder toward the LOS. But he's right there to make the stop...but whiffs. Badly. 4) Dannell Ellerbe has an open-window read as the playside guard pulls backside on the counter and Soliai crosses the center's face. Ellerbe steps into the gap slow and then gets tripped up on the centers legs. I think he gets false-keyed here, which is what the counter is supposed to do as it doesn't look like Ellerbe's on a run-blitz. Ellerbe should have pursued laterally but got influenced by the open window read. 5) Koa Misi gives real nice effort here disengaging Heath Miller's block and scraping back to the play to make the tackle. In short, I think if you put Dion Jordan at Will LB in place of Wheeler on this play 1 of 2 things happens. I think he either gets caught up in the wash of Odrick's double team block and isn't able to step down into the back, or he shoots so far up field he runs himself right into David DeCastro and takes himself out of the play and lets Bell get the corner for a bigger gain. As for the whole defense, these simple breakdowns happened quite a bit. I hope that some of that is mitigated by not having George Edwards as the LB coach. I think Mark Duffner is savvy enough to help get guys like Ellerbe and Wheeler to read their keys and take their steps better. Hopefully Olivier Vernon is a year wiser and knows in that situation to come upfield more or you have Dion Jordan strong enough to use his length to be able to spill that run outside even more to give Wheeler an advantage in making the play. I just don't see Jordan fairing any better than Wheeler, and while I doubt that makes much sense on tape, I'm basing that off Jordan's always having had a simple upfield read to make because in this case it looks as if Wheeler's primary read is the tackle who blocks down, then his eyes move to the FB #46 and sees the counter block and you see him step outside of OV. I just don't trust Dion Jordan to be able to do that correctly in a manner quickly enough to make that play. To summarize this play had 3 culprits. OV stepped wrong which is the first mistake. Ellerbe got false-keyed and took himself out of the play, then got tripped up to the point he couldn't recover. Wheeler did everything right but whiffed on the tackle. At the end of it you've got your SAM backer coming 10-15 yards back across field to make the tackle with your strong side safety (Clemons in this case as Jones was in a single-high look) making the tackle for a 5 or 6 yard gain. But, I do see some of the things Kevin Coyle was trying to do later on in the year when he made Wheeler and Misi more true WILL and SAM LBs as opposed to early in the year when he simply kept things at left and right. Once that switch was made the defense got better, but I do think it took away from Cameron Wake as he wasn't always on the open-side of the defense as he was in 2012. That's one thing I think he'll be better at this year when he's 100% healthy and it's also why I think if they can maximize Dion Jordan's full potential as that open-side DE he's going to be really, really good there.
Agreed. And, even if you like Misi on early downs, the league is so pass oriented, they could use Jordan there early. Or move Misi to the middle (not getting why they don't explore that - he's tougher at the point of attack than any other LB). But, it bugs me that they think Jordan needs to bulk up before he can be an every down player. That's fine if he does, and certainly he can get stronger. All for it. But, Jason Taylor was always consistent against the run (though some shallow-minded pundits used to criticize him about that - unjustifiably). And, Taylor played virtually his entire career at 6'6, 240, 245 (though listed at 255). Jordan is equal or bigger in bulk than Taylor ever was. What made him potent against the run was his quickness. I think Jordan can do the same thing. It is bothersome that they don't think the #3 pick in the draft is going to be a starter in his second year. What the crap does that say about the pick? Good grief. If he doesn't start year two (barring injury) that would be a big fail, imo.
Well, not arguing what Jordan would do, but I don't agree with all your analysis. First, of course, it's one play. But, second, I think you give way too much credit to Vernon. He blows the play. Should have hit DeCastro from the other side and caved it in. Or, if Jordan were there, ala JT, he should have crashed into the backfield and blown up the play or delayed it. Crashing in along the LOS just allows him to get caught up in the wash and it creates a one-on-one with the OLB. The lack of "up-field" attack in Miami is one of the flaws of their defense, imo. In this league I think you have to have ends that crash upfield with power and force or speed. The "read-react" stuff kills you unless you have exceptional players. I don't care who you are - that's a great scenario for any OC. I want my RB one-on-one with the OLB every down. If he can't beat him, I'm getting another RB. That whole play was a failure. The point you raise about Wheeler is spot on with respect to his crashing the LOS. He should have busted up the field when Vernon caved inside and he'd have hit Bell in the backfield before he had time to get started. Once Bell got his legs going, he had the time to juke and beat Wheeler. Both Wheeler and Ellerbe are just timid, non-physically dominant players. I doubt Hickey has the guts to be drastic, but I would look to replace both. Treat both as just average guys and bring in competition. But, I think Miami has the potential to be a much more attacking front 7 and needs to go that route.
It was KM, I've said this before, but there was a presser when Philbin was hired that oozed of resentment by Ireland. He said, and i paraphrase, " a lot of people seem to love joe Philbin the man, I sure hope he coaches as good.".. It was followed with fake laughter and uncomfortable tones..and imo that sentence and that tone showed me he wasn't his guy.
Jordan will not play OLB in Coyle's defence. Unless they replace Coyle with a 3-4 DC, Jordan will be a DE. I heard a coach say once in a press conference that they want Jordan at 270lbs. This is what Michael Johnson's weight is at. So Jordan needs to get bigger and take on blockers in the run game. He needs to be disciplined, stay in his gap and not cheat to the inside. If not he will not start. The stuff on Jamar Taylor is encouraging given Coyle's DB coaching background. Will Davis has upside and we all know Dallas Thomas is a lost cause. The OL needs a major overhaul and Hickey better know his FA OL because we need to be major players when the bidding starts.
The short answer is that I disagree with most of this. And as to Jason Taylor, he was a lightweight DE exception, and there are others- Jack Youngblood, Robert Mathis. Taylor got exposed badly against Tony Boselli on at least one occsaion, but he used leverage and whatever mojo he had to more that hold his own at DE. Just because Taylor could do it, that doesn't mean that Jordan has that same skill set. What he is is a tall, lanky, strong and fast defender with great quickness and acceleration, a very good pass rusher and a player with very high end coverage skills, especially against bigger TEs with his speed, quickness and 6-6 height. At DE Jordan is often getting stonewalled by OT's- if you have a rare athlete who is phenomenal in space but struggles on the line against OT's, why keep him there? His strengths lie elsewhere- Cameron Wake, there's a guy who belongs at DE, not OLB. Jordan's skill set screams out OLB- screw Wheeler, bench him, we traded up to the #3 overall pick to utilize this guy's vast talent and potential. Why not do that? Forget about the Jason Taylor size comparisons, Jordan is not cut out to be a DE.
If OV comes up field right on the same DeCastro simply kicks him out, if not pancakes him outright or he simply overruns LeVeon Bell. And given Bell's spin move I think it's highly likely he avoids Vernon that far upfield given the angle Vernon would've been coming in at.
To have $11 mil in guaranteed money allocated to 2 backup LBs would be unprecedented IMO. Not gonna happen.
I'd be fine with Misi staying put and Jordan taking over Wheelerer's weak side spot, get creative with him otherwise as per rushing and covering TEs. Again, Jordan may be 6-6 but with his speed and quicks he's be fine on either side. Get him on the field, play him, make use of his natural talents and abilities and get the stiff Wheeler on the bench, salary be damned. The money spent on Wheeler and Ellerbe is straight up a waste.
you see james harrison on the Bengals, Bruce Irvin. Von Miller. Jordan can cover better than all of them. Coyle just needs to get him on the field. Period. soliai, odrick, wake, vernon misi ellerbe jordan pass downs: vernon jordan ordrick wake ellerbe jenkins Wheller and shelby as main reserves ATM
Some people credit Ireland as the one who hired Philbin, others like me believe the Schefters and Morts of the world who say he actually preferred McCoy and Philbin was the owner's call. it's pretty similar to the debate of Ireland's role when Parcells was here, many think he was equally as responsible as Parcells for the ****ty drafting and bad signings, other believe Parcells called all the shots and Ireland would've done things differently if he was running things. at the end of the day it really doesn't matter, he's gone. My point is in the beginning, everyone likes each other, there's no reason not to. We'll see how they get along if we have a losing season with Hickey's rookies barely seeing the field.
I think he makes the tackle, but if he's playing where Philip Wheeler is in that play, I don't think he gets himself into the position Wheeler did. Not at this juncture anyway.
That's not saying much, you're not a very smart person and making "things" is tough for you. But I still "love" you.
The scariest part of that is that despite missing as many tackles as he did, Philip Wheeler led the team in tackles in 2013. For as down a year as he had, Reshad Jones was 2nd. Both had over 100 total tackles. I'd consider that baffling, but with everything that happened with the 2013 Miami Dolphins it may as well fit right in.
At a certain point, I think it's his responsibilities rather than his position, and his snap count rather than starting position that matters. I don't care if he doesn't start a game, he should be breaking 500 or so snaps at least next year. The Dolphins are really deep at edge defenders, and they should have a rotation. I think late last year they got a pretty good idea of how to best use Jordan, Vernon, and Shelby along with the established roles of Wake and Misi. The position doesn't matter so much in my mind as long as he's an edge defender, and gets significant snaps in coverage. As long as he's at a wider technique in the base package, I think we're fine. I'm OK with him going from DE to LB from base to Nickel, rather than the reverse. They're going to put him in interesting and complex coverage situations, which is the important thing.
I have much more confidence in Jones having a bounce back year than I do Wheeler. I think Jones suffered a bit from lackluster linebacker play.
Just don't forget Friday is Valentine's Day. I made reservations at the Cracker Barrell for 8 o'clock. Wear the low cut dress I got you at the Dress Barn.
Which Raiders fan were you listening to, at the time we signed Wheeler, who were laughing their assess off? I'm sure some thought we overpaid, but he did play much better in 2012 than any other year during his career, so it is likely many Raiders fans were hoping they'd keep him.
