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See how Dolphins players ranked at their position this year

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NaboCane, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    surferosa and djphinfan like this.
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I respect PFF over other services or stat companies..

    The obvious things we can see with our eyes and how the rating went gives it some credibility...wake and grimes are elite players..Ellerbe and wheeler had terrible years..Starks and Odrick are pretty good players...Dion is excellent in pass coverage..

    I'm very suprised at Ryan's position..very happy, would like to know more how they gave him that top ten ranking..I know how they rate plays per position but I'm wondering to come up with a final Qb rating were their any summations that we don't know about.?
     
  3. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    So iam to believe Dion Jordan had a better season than Oliver Vernon?

    Pff blows...

    Sturgis thee 11th best K, Fields thee 12th best punter?? Yaaaawn..
     
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  4. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    These kind of articles are really stupid and lazy, and they do a disservice to PFF.

    Listing the composite rankings of the players isn't really all that valuable in a lot of cases because nothing is weighted and doesn't have any sort of technical context. Making PFF rankings the basis for, rather than the supplement of an article is just bad work as a writer. Even Barry Jackson has been terrible about this.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    O, you can't argue stats on kickers,it is what it is, it goes between the post or it doesn't...average per attempt relative...how many touch backs relative...punting distance average..stats are golden on those two positions.
     
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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just think they calculated the numbers from all the players games and the computer spit out the numbers.
     
  8. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Let's clarify, for the less-than-inquisitive; or should I say, "the usual suspects": PFF's rankings aren't based on OPINIONS like some focacta message board gone megalomaniacal; they're based on FACT. They're based on what the player actually did, compared to other players in their same position.
     
  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're not in a position to clarify much of anything.

    I'm talking about using "overall" rankings in articles. That is lazy and misleading, I've got no issues with PFF. Russell Wilson is the 4th rated QB based quite heavily on a +10.8 rushing rating, and puts him on par with Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers as an overall player when they blew him away as quarterbacks. All aspects of a position have equal weights in the overall score, when not all aspects of a position are close to equal. The overall rankings have some degree of comparative value, but it's situational and you should know and have more to say about it than that if you're a professional writing.
     
  10. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's not true though. They are based on opinions of whether the player did or didn't do their job, and those opinions are being made by people with no special knowledge of the play call or assignments. They're completely based on opinion.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  11. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    You're calling pure statistical analysis and comparison "opinion"? Seriously?
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    How they get that statistical analysis and comparison is opinion, since they do not know exactly the playcall and who is responsible for what.

    However they are still one of the better resources out there.
     
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  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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  14. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you understand how they get their grades?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    PFF rates players based on their opinions of what they see. Is it more accurate than most?? Maybe, but when you tell me Dion had a better year than Vernon and even go as far to say he had a "negative" pass rushing rating..I question the validity.
     
  16. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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  17. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Have you seen John Jerry

    Dudes ugly
     
  18. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    If we got rid of anyone above 30 we would be in good shape.

    Hell the new GM or Aponte could use this list to draft from
     
  19. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Even PFF states to take the overall position rankings with a grain of salt. The value is in the individual numbers and the deeper stat analysis. The overall rankings are just them throwing opinion at the wall and they are the first to say it.
     
  20. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Perhaps because most of Vernon's sack were not the result of his talent but because of coverage or Cam Wake.... aka the jason Taylor effect.
     
  21. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    We have had many players lineup opposite Cam Wake the past 4 years and never before has a counterpart had 11 sacks.
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To detect whether a player wins or loses on a play doesn't take evaluation skills like a GM or scout, it's much easier..
     
  23. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    There's nothing statistical about the grades you're quoting. They're formed by manual evaluation. Film watching.
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You don't know if he lost because he made a mistake or if he was trying to covering up for someone else.
     
  25. NolePhin15

    NolePhin15 Well-Known Member

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    I dont know how people can look at those numbers and honestly think that the QB is the problem
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think if you know the game, you can see the difference between the two.
     
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  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You can make your best guess, but you never know
     
  28. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wr runs a 20yrd out, great move, bursts open destroys CB. QB throws a 20yrd in, pure timing throw, perfect ball placement. Result is interception. Who is at fault? With out knowing the call or the reads impossible to say. Conversely, the CB that just got destroyed has a gift ball in his bread basket, where as one that played with better technique would have been out of position. Or, take a random blitz, tackle doesn't pick it up as he thinks it's the HB's job, was it? DId the QB set protections correctly?
     
  29. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Because we've already made the distinction that you can judge a player based on over PFF numbers.
     
  30. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Dolphins fans are giving Tannehill the Sam Bradford treatment... in the end, when will results come? Don't care for empty stats, I want playoffs and not just showing up at the first round, I want a competitive playoff series. Is that ever going to happen under Tannehill? We'll see next year but if we don't make the playoffs again, you have to move on. Good lord you have to move on.
     
  31. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Wallace's PFF rating would have been much higher if the 7th ranked QB could actually throw a deep ball which can be completed. It is unfair that this rating system doesn't take into consideration that Tannehill throws a terrible deep pass and therefore Wallace doesn't have nearly the receiving yardage or TD's he should have had this season.

    But hey, Tannehill is the 7th rated QB in this flawed rating system, so I guess all is great in the world.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Usually you can tell on a pass play like that, I would think if the play goes down like that and you can't get a read on who was responsible for the error, you don't score it as a pos or neg.

    In terms of grading the lineman, you don't take into account the end result of the play in that case, you only judge the individual matchup he had with his opponent.
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There are no distinctions being made, imo it's a fun service that has more validity then any analytical/stat service out there..

    just like stats, if your making your personnel decisions from a computer you suck...it's a devils advocate vehicle on players you don't watch every rep on.
     
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  34. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I feel like PFF has gotten popular only because message boards like this exist. Like, people needed these strange new stats to make arguments with other fans. I highly doubt that pro scouts or evaluators use pff. It's all about the armchair GMs. If there weren't fan forums, I don't think that site would be around.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would disagree, I know there are some pros on some levels that look at their results.

    Think of it like this..there is a player on another team your thinking about brining in, or lets say your an agent, your trying to find some under the radar players, you can look a the numbers first then confirm or dismiss with your eyes.
     
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  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I like PFF more for things like the linemen's ratings. I do not believe anyone here or any other service watches every snap in every game by every player and assigns any sort of a grade to them. For the so called skill positions, I prefer to look at things like passer rating for QBs, catch pct by receivers, yards per carry by RBs etc.
    The give RT a rating that ranks him as the 7th best QB, yet his passer rating of 81.7 is somewhere around 25th.
    If someone can tell me a sound reason why the rating of 7th paints a more accurate picture than his passer rating, I am willing to listen.
     
  37. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Consider the previous guys coming off the edge. Koa Misi, Jason Taylor, and Jared Odrick. Misi and Odrick are not suited for edge rushing and Jason Taylor was old. Vernon isn't without talent, but it's clear watching him that the majority of his sacks were the product of context.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd like to know how they came up with that Qb ranking as well..maybe something to do with lack of yac, poor protection, no run game, int's that were not his fault.??
     
  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's why I was crushin' heavily on Ziggy Ansah- to mop up on all those sack opportunities from busted pockets or QBs on the move, but do so while also being stout against the run and offer the capability of multiple fronts.
     
  40. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Maybe, but atleast we have a player who can take advantage of that we didn't before.
     

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