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Turner,Ireland and Sherman on the chop block

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. dolfan40

    dolfan40 Well-Known Member

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    s ESPN's James Walker said on the Joe Rose show this morning, Dolphins OL coach Jim Turner, OC Mike Sherman and GM Jeff Ireland should feel very nervous.

    Decision on HC Joe Philbin is much more difficult. Dolphins ownership is high on him. Stephen Ross wants to examine entire body of work.

    It would be tough for Dolphins HC Joe Philbin to let go of his mentor and friend Mike Sherman. But it's a performance business.

    You can't let a friendship between HC Joe Philbin and OC Mike Sherman hold back an entire Dolphins organization. That's unprofessional.
     
  2. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Those three rightfully so need to be canned.
     
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  3. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Throw Zac Taylor into that package and you got yourself a deal.
     
  4. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Do you think that if Sherman was canned and Philbin wasn't, he'd keep Taylor on staff as a favor?
     
  5. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Would that be Philbin firing them on his own or someone above him demanding a few sacrificial lambs to feed the mob?
     
  6. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Honest question:

    What have Zach Taylor, Mike Sherman, and Jim Turner done to deserve keeping their jobs?

    This isn't about appeasing fans and/or the "mob". This is about firing company employees that failed to do their job up to standard
     
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  7. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We're not going to get a quality GM here if we don't let him have his choice at head coach. Firing Ireland but making Philbin untouchable is a waste of time. I don't intensely dislike Philbin, but he hasn't done anything to make keeping him worth possibly losing out on a quality GM.
     
  8. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin hired them. He should be the one firing them, but I'd imagine that order comes from Stephen Ross and not Philbin himself. That would indicting in and of itself as well.
     
  9. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I think the ownership forcing firings in a Head Coach's staff is equally as troublesome as the Head Coach himself not realizing the necessity for the firings on his own. This attachment of Philbin's towards Sherman is somewhat disturbing.
     
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  10. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    And to add to that. What pedigree do Jim Turner and Zach Taylor have that could possibly say that they'll ever be successful coaches at this level?

    Neither has NFL experience, and they've appeared (or their units) appeared to have failed miserably at this level
     
  11. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I'm not concerned with their prior experience, only their results. Those speak for themselves.
     
  12. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Right, and that's the most important. But neither of those guys can even say they've ever had success at any point in the NFL. At the very least, Sherman can
     
  13. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    While I agree on Turner (though the failure of the OL is actually more damning for Joe Philbin; if he's got one expertise, it's as an OL coach for crying out loud), I'm not sure I dislike Zac Taylor's work with Ryan Tannehill. He's coming along pretty nicely for a quarterback with very limited college experience and playing behind what figures to be the worst OL in the business. Is there room for improvement? There sure is. But if you didn't fully intend to develop Tannehill for more than just two years, then you picked the wrong quarterback.
     
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  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's possible, but I tend to hope he'd be reassigned. It's hard to rage too much against nepotism in the NFL when knowing someone is how a lot of good coaches have gotten their shot, but he should never have been the quarterback coach.

    I'm assuming the idea was that Sherman could handle the job and Taylor would apprentice, but that I think was pretty problematic as well considering Sherman was his head coach in college and any "flaws" that were there would be less likely to be corrected.

    The guy should have been the assistant QB coach, or a quality control assistant.
     
  15. Caps

    Caps Movimiento Juvenil

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    Firing those three would be enough for me, but I wouldn't be opposed to more changes. Ireland needs to go, this last draft class has been a trainwreck and he should have been let go already. Let the new GM make the call on Philbin & Co. one way or the other.
     
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  16. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Besides being related?

    "There are also questions about offensive line coach Jim Turner and quarterbacks coach Zac Taylor. Turner presided over an offensive line that was a disaster much of the year. Taylor got moderate but unimpressive improvement out of quarterback Ryan Tannehill. Both Turner and Taylor are related to Sherman by either blood or marriage. So do they stay if he goes?"

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/...owner.html#.UsDyj-y-07g.twitter#storylink=cpy
     
  17. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Still find it shocking that Turner has been kept on board this long.
     
  18. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jim Turner is related to Mike Sherman?
     
  19. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    wait...turner is related to sherman too? lmao. is the entire f'ing family incompetent or what?
     
  20. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I don't see why he should. Tannehill ended the season playing his worse football of the entire season. So if you are going to change the coaches on the offense, the QB coach, Taylor needs to go too.
     
  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Serious answer: I have no idea.

    For all we know Philbin thinks they did a terrific job. My question was more about whose deciding that those assistants be canned. IF Philbin wants them fired them of course they'll be fired but what if he doesn't, does someone above him step in and demand they be let go? If Philbin's hand is forced will he be allowed to pick the new guys or will that decision be taken away from him as well?

    Do you cut your HC off at the knees and then expect him to perform better? Personally I feel like it's Philbin staff and he should be allowed to run it as he sees fit for as long as he's the HC.
     
  22. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Well, that explains that.
     
  23. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'm not sure. If I knew someone in my profession since being a young man, respected his career and such....I'm not sure I could fire him either. I'd probably say...lets succeed or go down together. Its good Ross will make tthis decision.
     
  24. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    That is how it should be. When you start dictating to the coach though, you should just get rid of the coach.
     
  25. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I think the Dolphins need to hire a new DC also. This defense has gone down with Coyle calling the defensive plays. The defensive line and LB's were not nearly as effective this year as they have been in the past. Of course the LB play went down because Ireland was dumb enough to cut Dansby and Burnett for Wheeler and Ellerbe. That had to be one of the worst personnel moves in NFL history.
    I blame Coyle for not finding ways to use Jordan in the defense. The Dolphins had zero pass rush in their last two games and Jordan was drafted to help provide pass rush pressure for this defense. Either Jordan is a bust as the third pick in the 2013 draft or Coyle isn't bright enough to find ways to utilize him.
     
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  26. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    i'm still stuck on turner being related to sherman too. neither of his relatives have nfl experience. so philbin basically hired sherman's entire family to coach the two most important units on offense? what kind of bullshyt is that...smh. fire everyone. i'm done.
     
  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I just don't trust Ross to make good decisions in this process.

    Heck, he seems slow and indecisive to begin with.
     
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  28. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin should be asked what changes he would make to the staff, and he should be fired along with all the rest of them if he doesn't think anything needs to be changed. He's a smart guy; he knows what he has to do.
     
  29. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    That's why it is troublesome. If the owner thinks the coach is unable to make rational decisions because of attachment, then it's troublesome the owner has to make decisions for the coach, and it's troublesome that coach cannot realize the situation or is unable to do so because of attachment.
     
  30. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    That's a good point. And it's one of several reasons I feel Philbin may need to be fired as well. Because any scenario of keeping Philbin will have dire consequences.

    Staying the course with this staff intact as I would assume Philbin prefers is out of the question IMO and probably in Ross's opinion
     
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  31. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ross does not inspire confidence. To be fair, none of the "visible" owners in the league do, IMO.
     
  32. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    We didn't just hire Mike Sherman, we hired the Mike Sherman family. Package deal, but no discounts for multiple salaries or lack of coaching ability.
     
  33. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Exactly, I agree 100%
     
  34. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    I'm curious: Does anyone know of a team that became successful after ditching a significant part of its staff while retaining the HC? Maybe there is one, but the only examples I can think of are teams that ended up regretting their decision not to fire the HC, too.
     
  35. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Its not really a normal attachment though. They have been friends for what...40 years?

    Philbin may rationalize that Sherman would be fine with better talent and that could be the rift between he and Ireland if that rift exists. Now if it were just a friend he met in the league, who had no previous success.....I'd find that disturbing. I find this just to be human nature.
     
  36. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I like that Tannehill improved overall from last year. I like that he did so when the majority of the offense was placed on him. What I don't like is his Schaub/Romo-esque tendencies, and I don't think Taylor had anything to do with his development. I think anything Tannehill did he did on his own.
     
  37. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    i didnt know turner was related to sherman. i knew about the qb coach. this only pisses me off further. makes me think philbin has been nothing more than sherman's puppet. how else can you explain him hiring another man's inexperienced family as assistants. philbin and the whole damn crew needs to go.
     
  38. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    You're right. But it still presents a troublesome situation for the team. If Philbin is unable to evaluate Sherman, The Offensive Coordinator because he has deep admiration and attachment to Sherman, the Mentor and friend, then that is a very complicated and troublesome situation for the team.
     
  39. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Do you have any rational basis for this perception? Because it seems just a tad bit unfair to crucify the staff for units that didn't improve while not giving them credit for players that did.
     
  40. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    This. We can't half-@$$ it again like after 2011. When/if they fire Ireland they need to let the next GM decide Philbin's fate.
     

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