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Ireland has given you OL personnel responsibility

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Lee2000, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You have been given the responsibility to scout, evaluate, and ultimately make OL transactions. How would you approach personnel decisions differently than Ireland? Be aware your response will be reviewed with severe skepticism.
     
  2. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Next 3 years, take LT, RT and G in 1st round...



















    Just kiddin'...I don't know near enough about evaluating NFL talent, much like most people, to entertain the thought.
     
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  3. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would let this unit gel and see what we actually have on the line before making any drastic decisions.
     
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  4. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't really have enough talent there either. Appreciate the honesty.
     
  5. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That would be the reasonable thing to do. However, you may have to address injuries and be put under pressure in other ways to make decisions.
     
  6. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure a ton can be done at this point, but I do think that the depth of the unit is a concern. If someone goes down, it gets pretty scary. If you're talking long term, certainly I would be looking to improve the depth of the line at the very least.
     
  7. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    It's too late, Ireland already fumbled. WTF can you do now but bring in every 300+ lb guy that ever played football and hope you find a diamond. I doubt anyone is willing to trade any decent Offensive Lineman.

    Your stuck with this group and if I'm Ireland, I'm going to church on Sunday and praying to the almighty himself that one of these blatantly average starting five doesn't go down. (I say average with hope in my voice not belief.)

    Drop a Pouncy, like Pittsburgh did on Sunday, and you may as well have the ambulance waiting on the sidelines for Tannehill.

    The time to fix this was in the off-season and I thought he was doing well...I heard names like Long, Albert, McKinnie, etc. etc. and then I saw a trade up in the draft. Opps.:cry: When all was said and done, I heard the typical from Ireland - Well, Martin was our answer from day 1. :cry:

    It's not so much he dropped the ball - it's that he dropped the ball (Like with Harbaugh/Sprarano) and then lies about dropping the ball, when we all know he dropped the ball. He should have just said, they pursued options, none of them really worked out, we know it's a problem and were lacking depth, we know.

    To me, Irleand @%!#%! Tannehill/Miller/Wallace/Gibson/Hartline/Coach and All of us. Sorry, it is harsh but it is what it is. He needed to address the tackle position and he didn't. :wink2::pity::tantrum:
     
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  8. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    That's what we usually do. No need to give you control. :tongue2:

    We waited until Naanee **** the bed in that game to go out and look for guys. That was after losing Johnson to arrest. I hope we don't wait until something catastrophic if it comes to it.
     
  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's the coaches at this point. Ireland has given them more than adequate material to work with. Mike Pouncey, Richie Incognito, and Tyson Clabo are all pretty firmly upper quartile players at their respective positions. There are questions at LT and RG, but they're not bad enough to doom the entire endevour by any means. Both Martin and Jerry are serviceable.

    The fundamental issue Sunday I think is quite arguably that the Dolphins neglected the run game in the off-season. Less from a personnel standpoint than from a coaching and repetition standpoint.
     
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  10. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I think you're on to the meat of it there. I'd already forgotten how much they moved the line around in the pre-season, trying bunches of combinations. Hard to expect consistency like that I'd assume.

    I just hope we get at least reliable forward progress on runs this week, and Cleveland shuts down their opponents on the run for a while. I'd feel a whole lot better.

    The pass pro was just like most of us expected...took a while to get going.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Has given us a OL that has sitting...1-0

    W's and L's folks..all that matters.
     
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  12. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    As I've said many times, other than not waiting for Louis to heal, I don't have any issues with the steps taken with the OL this off-season.
     
  13. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Given the chance to actually be constructive, this is the response? Come on 72. You're an intelligent guy. YOu must have some opinions on where you'd like to see us go from here with OL moves.
     
  14. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    If this is the case, and I am not sure it is (at least not fully), then the question would become "How much ground can coaches make up by focusing on the run game now?".

    Also, if Tannehill's progression is in large part because of the time and focus they gave our passing attack, I think that's more important than our running game to our long term future... in terms of how practice time was spent before the season. Now we may need to play some catch up with the running game

    Also, the revolving door at RG hurt us. By late in the preseason we were still trying to sort out who fit best there rather than moving to the next level of Oline practice reps and more advanced stuff for them.
     
  15. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    For how many people excoriate Ireland and caterwaul about the O-line on a minute-to-second basis here, I am frankly amazed (but shouldn't be) that when someone says "Well, what would YOUR answer be?" we get....

    [video=youtube;19uYDDndvsM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19uYDDndvsM[/video]
     
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  16. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I would have signed Vollmer for sure, Geoff Schwartz as well, he's a big upgrade at RG that we could've signed for dirt cheap.
     
  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    To answer the question... I am not terribly confident that BOTH CLabo and Martin will be starting for us next year. Clabo due to his body holding up. Martin because I want to see if he progresses this year. If he does not, I'd rather he become a backup.

    RG is the real concern for now.

    I agree with Raf, and I said it a month ago, that Lewis needs to be re-examined once healthy. One advantage (maybe on purpose) of having brought hi in for camp, then cut him is that he knows our playbook and there would be much less lead time inserting him into our lineup if we signed him. That's one thing.

    In the draft and free agency, depending on how Martin/Clabo played out I'd be looking for either a LT or RT. I think we also have to factor Dallas Thomas' development into this. How much will he progress by the end of this season? If it's a noticeable improvement, then you'd hope that an additional offseason and training camp may may him viable at guard. The thing is, I'd rather see him adapt to RG than move Incognito. Thomas next to Martin.. no thanks.

    SO I'd, at the very least, want to bring in a RG prospect next season.

    Between free agency and the draft, brining in a RG and either a LT/RT is not an impossible task. What's annoying is that it's exactly where we were six months ago.
     
  18. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agreed on Vollmer, but we don't know:

    1) The salary Vollmer would have wanted to play in Miami, specifically
    2) If he was willing to play in Miami, specifically
     
  19. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Ireland has drafted or signed enough OL .He has just missed on most of them .:pity:
     
  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I would still like to have a look at Reid Fragel, too.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    How much money do you get to spend with this responsibility?

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
     
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  22. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see the OL completely rebuilt in the offseason (save for one guy), especially if we bring in a new GM, Incognito, Jerry, Clabo are all free agents, Martin could easily be replaced with an upgrade, Pouncey could have 4 new guys in the trenches with him next year.
     
  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    The amount you can fit in a clear plastic bag with a Dolphins logo.
     
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  24. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    My Nightmare: Jeff Ireland plans to let Incognito go and have Dallas Thomas (his 'replacement') man the left side with Martin.

    I wake up after hearing us drafting a new rookie QB in 2015 hoping he can be our future.
     
  25. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I'm not sure I agree with either of those statements. While many may not be great hits, there's really only one miss IMO. The only OL he clearly missed on was Shawn Murphy (edit: and I'm not saying Ireland couldn't have made better OL selections at the same spots). The only other OL who has been a "miss" was 6th rounder Andrew Gardener, but he is still in the league as a backup for the Houston Texans 5 yrs later. Jake Long is a multiple time all-pro even if he signed elsewhere, and Mike Pouncey should be a multiple pro-bowler if it was actually awarded on merit. Donald Thomas clearly wasn't a miss since he's started so many NFL games despite being taken in the 6th round. While perhaps not a clear hit, John Jerry isn't something I'd call a miss either (at least not yet). Martin and Thomas are still under evaluation.
     
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  26. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Do not agree. While he can be upgraded, it is not something I would say could be done easily unless you ignore the resource allocation aspect of such a move. Even outside of that, most alternatives to Martin are not upgrades IMO (a reflection of the difficulty in finding a good LT, not necessarily me thinking Martin is so good).
     
  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    We need to include Satele, unless we blame the coaches for not using or developing him properly leading to him leaving. And Free Agents like Smiley and Groves and Columbo.

    I mean, more misses than hits. Donald Thomas is debatable.
     
  28. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    If Joe Toledo available? Oh wait, he was hurt in a harmonica accident.
     
  29. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Ireland did not draft Satele or Toledo.

    And Grove, Smiley, and Columbo aren't draft picks, so why would I have included them when arguing he hasn't missed on most his drafted OL?

    Edit: my bad, when I first quoted Crunch I was sure it only said drafted.
     
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  30. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agree. In the draft, he took a defensive end/linebacker tweener who has a way to go, both in terms of injury recovery and getting used to NFL play, before he can hope to be an every down player. In other words, he moved up to take a luxury pick for the future of our strongest unit when he should have addressed a glaring, immediate need at offensive tackle for the present of our weakest unit. I'm sorry, but that's what a freaking moron does.

    In free agency, he didn't pay big money to available free agents despite the fact that the line clearly sucked. He went with what he hoped would happen (improvement in Martin, Jerry showing up in shape, Clabo being able to do the job at right tackle) instead of making something happen by paying first rate people. Another moron move.

    All that can be done now is coach the bejeezus out of the people we have and hope they get it. Otherwise it's wait till next year again.
     
  31. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Who should he have paid big money to?

    And Jerry did show up in shape.
     
  32. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Any delegation of duty of this magnitude will have no quick fixes. But that being said, it might be a matter of finding the right clay to mold, or as some have said, finding the right potter to mold the clay. OL cohesion has been an issue with this team for some time. Or at least it just seems that way. Year after year we are discussing the OL.
     
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  33. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Based on your very good research then one might say it is not talent evaluation but skill development and coaching. There is no doubt Ireland hit it well with Pouncey. And I agree on Thomas. I generally agree with your assessment. You have a staff where the head coach is an "offensive lineman" guy and you have Mr. Turner. I guess I do expect something more in terms of roster development.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What clay isn't being molded?

    Martin has improved. Jerry has been injured but showed up in shape. This is the very beginning of the second year in developing the roster. progress has been made so far.

    Jerry's injury threw a monkey wrench into the works during camp. We had to find the right way to fill his spot. While its true we don't have a lot of depth, its more of a factor of regime change than anything else.
     
  35. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Martin has improved from last year. I am not sure on Jerry yet. I like Samuda better before this preseason, but he struggled some. I like Garner and still have hope for Yeatman. And I actually think Incognito has handled the zone blocking schemes as best as can be expected. But when I watch a 20 yard on 23 carries performance I struggle with what I see. I know the reasons given. And maybe it is the time spent in repetition to give rhythm to the running game. I don't know. I remember the days of Webb and Sims and so forth and I can just hope things improve.
     
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  36. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Not saying they'd have been better picks than what we ended up with, but I'd have taken David Bakhtiari instead of Dallas Thomas and David Quessenberry instead of Gillislee. Those are OL changes I'd have done this past year in regards to the draft. I thought Clabo was a good veteran signing, and I'd probably have done the same. I'd like to have signed Louis Vasquez too at G (if Garner were a FA this past offseason, I would not have extended him).


    I'm sure some people would criticize me (if I were GM) if that actually happened though, because that'd be a good chunk of resources towards the OL.
     
  37. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Again, I'm not even trying to say Ireland has been very good at talent evaluation (his FA signings on face value do seem to be lacking historically overall), just that he isn't as bad as many make him out to be.

    I do think we have had some problems with development here though. I don't want to put it all on the coaches (I'm sure individual player's should share some of the blame as well), but it isn't all on Ireland either IMO.
     
  38. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A hypothetical assistant isn't necessarily a write-off of Ireland as an offensive line talent evaluator, but there just seems to be a disconnect somewhere. Can't put my finger on it yet. I did see Green Bay struggle in the running game Sunday as well. I think Ireland is better than most think. He actually has been a pretty decent evaluator of undrafted talent. I think one of the best lately.
     
  39. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Serious answer: Honestly, I'd focus on guard and LT. Stick to depth at first, but put more emphasis on starter quality players depending on the performance of John Jerry and Jon Martin.

    Ridiculous answer: Sign Colossus, The Juggernaut, and The Incredible Hulk.
     
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  40. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    You're someone I usually tend to agree with, but how do you know how much they worked on the running game in camp and OTAs? You may be right but it seems you're just guessing based on the poor performance. Unless there was something concrete that I missed.
     
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