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Dion Jordan's use in the Dolphins defense

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disgustipate, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's been a lot of speculation as to how the pick of Dion Jordan will alter the Dolphins defense, and I think it's worth its own discussion.

    A lot of people had identified him as a defensive end, and I think it's likely not true within the context of the Dolphins defense. Those of you with the expectation that he's going to replace Jared Odrick are likely to be disappointed. Looking through highlights I think the only time I've seen Jordan line up in a 3-point stance was on special teams. In college he's lined up almost exclusive as a linebacker regardless of package, and I would expect that to continue in Miami. Kevin Coyle also isn't really a guy likely to end up with a base package with two undersized defensive ends, either.

    Dion Jordan fits in the context of what the Dolphins do defensively now. The Dolphins run in the base package what seems like a pretty even split between standard 4-3 alignments and 4-3 Over packages, and in Nickel seem to split primarily between 4-2 and 3-3 packages. It's possible that Dion Jordan will play overwhelmingly at linebacker, essentially playing Misi and Vernon's positions.

    I think the real question is how much the tendencies shift within the framework of what they already do. Will Dion Jordan be asked to play like a true off-the-line linebacker, or will the Dolphins end up shifting more towards the 3-4 elements in the defense?
     
  2. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed.
     
  3. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've said previously that if he was picked he could be a OLB in Coyles system. He could be this rare 6'6" 4-3 LB. It's a hybrid system though. Misi at times plays on the line and at times off the line opposite Wake. I would imagine Jordan replacing Misi. I don't think Coyle will use more 3-4 but instead use the same mix of 4-3 and 3-4 elements as he did last year. I like the pick. Jordan IMO is a Jason Taylor clone. You don't find 6'6" guys who can run and change direction so fluidly. He's special. He can cover TEs and rush the passer so he gives Coyle flexibility in how to attack.
     
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  4. UCFinfan86

    UCFinfan86 Season Ticket Holder

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    It seems that the pieces we have work best as a 3-4 defense.

    Starks - Solali - Odrick is a very good balance between run defending and pass rushing from 3 down lineman.

    With Wake and Jordan as your passrushing OLB with Wheeler and Ellerbe as your ILB. Misi seems to take over the utility, jack of all trades role.

    With Ellerbe/Wheeler excelling at blitzing we will really be able to disguise alot of our D looks.
     
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  5. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I think what he presents is the ability to keep read-option offenses off-guard by having him play a hybrid position in which he can do lots of things. The success of the read-option depends in large part on taking a traditional 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB out of the equation by running the play off of what he does just after the snap. Right now the NFL has no answer for this against the teams that run it effectively, such as Washington and Seattle (RGIII and Russell Wilson). This sort of hybrid, speedy, very agile player in Jordan I think is the answer.

    You need a guy who has the speed and agility to play in space against the read-option, while also the skills to rush the passer in the event the opposing QB drops back to pass. The Jared Odricks (and even the Mario Williamses) of the world can't do that. They don't have the speed or agility to defend the read-option and rush the passer from their position, which is the critical one against that offense. You need a guy who can react with a sort of "zone" approach just after the snap, and then be able to collapse quickly into the middle to defend the inside run, quickly get wide to defend the running quarterback, or quickly get upfield toward the passer if he drops back. Jordan can do all of those things.
     
  6. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    Could be a "hybrid" type ,utilized much like JT was used by Miami as DE/Outside linebacker.
     
  7. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Yea, I don't imagine we'll have ANY problem getting this kid on the field...at all. His ability and tools are insane. He has a nice feel for dropping into short zones and good hips to cover LBs and RBs if need be; like shou said, he's an elite pursuit guy and plays great in space; and most importantly this kid can get after the QB. He'll fill out his frame a bit to hold against the run, and take on Tackles even better as he grows, but man his edge rush opposite Wake is going to be devastating - elite explosion, nice punch, legit bend.

    He's an ELITE athlete who can do lots of things that'll give us great package and personnel flexibility. Top-tier athlete on the field a lot playing everywhere in the box for this defense, really pumped.
     
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  8. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It would make no sense to play him as a regular 4-3 DE. It would waste some of his greatest attributes -- speed, agility, coverage skills -- and magnify his lone real deficiency (bulk, as a DE).

    I think the JT comparison is pretty on point. Javon Kearse may be an even better comparison. Manny Lawson is a good call as the downside version.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    From what was said in the draft chat, he is taking Misi's job.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I said it earlier, but I don't think Jordan busts.

    He was literally on fire and ended up with 2nd & 3rd degree burns over his 40% of his body and he was telling his mom his hands were good so he can still catch a football (he was a WR at the time).

    If a guy has the talent and THAT kind of drive, he will be successful unless something outside his control stops him.
     
  11. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Yep, Kearse was the first "non-JT" comparison that popped into my head too. Either way, if Jordan plays like one of those two, the move up to get him will be well worth.
     
  12. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    CK tweeted that he's a cross between Manny Lawson and Aldon Smith, but closer to Aldon Smith than Manny Lawson. I agree with that. I certainly think he's a unique player that allows Miami to incorporate more elements into their defense, whether it's more 3-4 elements in the base package or doing more creative things in sub-packages, it fits.

    I'm kicking myself based on an old, old free agency thread with a player I identified as a potential Miami target. Should have seen the comparison to Dion, and didn't. I wanted Jarvis Jones, who essentially fills the same role, but is nowhere near as dynamic as Jordan. I think if Miami trains him on effectively, he's going to be DAMN good.
     
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  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He is a cross between Ted Hendricks and Jason Taylor to me. Eventually he'll be the Sam in the base defense and a nickel package DE. Initially he'll be just the nickel pass rusher at RDE.
     
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  14. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If they were going to try and find a pass rusher opposite Cam Wake, I would have preferred that stay at 12 and select Jarvis Jones. I think Jones will have a excellent career in the NFL.

    I think the fact Jordan only had five sacks for Oregon in all of 2012, leaves him as a huge question mark as a pass rusher at the NFL level. He may end up being the second coming of Jason Taylor, but he may also be the next Aaron Curry. I hope this trade works out for the Dolphins, but I would have felt better if they traded up to three to take Lane Johnson or even Tavon Austin. I also would love to have kept that early second round pick that they had to give to the Raiders to move up and take Jordan.

    It will be interesting to look back in a few years and see who has the better NFL career, Jordan or Jones.
     
  15. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    OP was dead on.

    Mii will give us depth at all 3 lb positions now. That is something we very badly needed.

    I expect our lbs to be very active this year.
     
  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Go watch tape on how Coyle used Michael Johnson....
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think that is extremely simplistic. You can't just look at sack numbers to determine how good at rushing the passer he is. At least look at sacks per rushes to get a better idea.

    IMO, the idea that they are drafting Dion Jordan to be just a pass rusher is plain wrong. They are drafting a player who can be really dynamic in their defense. Dion Jordan is a player who lined up against slot recievers in college. Can you say that about Jarvis Jones?

    Dion Jordon is a player who can rush the passer, play well again the run, cover the big tight ends, athletic enough to disrupt slot receiver routes and even blitz from any position on the field other than safety.

    He could be the next Aaron Curry, however Lane Johnson could be the next *insert LT bust* or Austin could be the next Ted Ginn.

    I don't think anyone on this board thinks that Miami was good in defensive plays in the last five years. In fact, I am sure you even wrote a few posts about the lack of defensive playmakers. Miami got themselves a defensive playmaker, and someone who will finally help them get a defense that can get off of the field on fourth downs.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You need to compare the number of pressures per snap to have an idea who is the most effective pass rusher. Jarvis Jones may have more sacks but how many more downs did he rush the passer? Jordan was used all over the field, including covering the slot receiver.
    I hate it when people just simply say player X had 5 sacks and player Y had 10, so player Y must be the better pass rusher. Player X may have rushed the passer 100 times and player Y may have 300 times. Unless you know, you cannot accurately say which one is the most productive pass rusher.
     
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  19. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My God, if only he can be as nasty as Hendricks. The thought of that makes me drool.
     
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  20. ItsDFresh

    ItsDFresh Beast Mode

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    The name of the position he played in college was the "Leo". I could see this translating to the strong side linebacker in the 4-3 goodbye misi. However, in his first year and being that he isn't going to be able to add weight due to the shoulder injury i could see him more as a positional , 3rd down player. Much like how Aldon Smith was used in his first year.
     
  21. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I also like the Hendricks / JT comparisons but the Smith one is also in play ... I think he will eventually replace Misi. At first he will be a nickel package guy this year (similar to Aldon Smith his rookie year) ... Then he will become an every down guy as he matures and grows stronger.

    I can see us running a kind of hybrid 4-3 / 3-4 ... almost a 5-2 ... reminiscent of SF in some ways but our own thing. If DJ works out then Misi may be playing elsewhere in 2014. Could look something like this (player initials in position):


    CW -- RS -- PS -- JO ..|
    ......................... -- DJ (flex pos - move up, back, rush, drop)
    ......PW -- DE ........... |

    Then, go to a 3 point stance and Soliai comes out (Possibly have Vernon also come in for Starks on pure pass rush downs and vernon would work as a pass rush DT).

    I saw him in a few 3 point stances in videos I watched - on passing downs. And he looked good to me - so I don't think that will be an issue.
     
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  22. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Any chance that he could be used to cover TEs? I am thinking about New England, but they are not the only ones...

    could he have some value in a "covering role"? would he be able to do it? or would it be a waste of his talents?

    I am wondering if the coaching staff see him "just" as a pass rushing threat or if they are thinking about a wider role
     
  23. peakz

    peakz New Member

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    This wouldn't surprise me personally.
    He lined up as a corner for 30%+ of his time on the field in some games at Oregon.
     
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  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I wonder if a better comparison is ex Raven Adalius Thomas?

    They did wild things with him, like lined him up at Safety.
     
  25. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    I agree with this.

    Ireland is adapting in advance, which is great. The read-option was a huge headache for the league's top Defenses last year, which means it will be run even more this year by more teams.

    Getting an OLB/DE who is supposedly superb at playing in space and athletically gifted is exactly what's necessary to stop the read-option.
     
  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    At least in Goal Line situations, he could be a neutralizer for a Gronk/Hernandez. Not sure if downfield coverage is what we want him doing a lot of the time, but short yardage, it at least presents a situation the Pats might have to plan for.
     
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  27. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They're thinking of a wider role. He'll be involved with coverage to a significant degree, likely playing Misi's role(more coverage than rushing) in the base, and Vernon's role(mostly rushing with some coverage) in the Nickel. The Dolphins fell in love with him I believe because he's a pass rusher who has a potential big upside in coverage, and that plays into what they like to do a lot. They've got plans for the blitz package, and a big part of what they do involves making life difficult by screwing with teams blocking scheme. ILBs who can blitz and OLBs who can cover are a part of that.

    I think it's difficult to expect Dion Jordan to be a silver bullet against the Rob Gronkowski's of the world. There aren't a lot of those in the NFL, if there are any. There are better people than I to point out potentially flaws to this idea, but when you see a guy who is that athletic, tall, and has a background understanding of the passing game, I think your best case scenarios are pretty intriguing.
     
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  28. I think moving up to take jordan may be their attempt to compensate for havingg a weak secondary to cover. Emphasize your pass rush and hope your DBs can cover at least for several steps. Its easier to improve our front 7 then it is to find 2 starting caliber corners. I'm expecting to see strong pass rush mixing lots of blitz packages
     
  29. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This makes sense to me. Short yardage situations where his wingspan makes it hard to go over the top and athletic enough to cover for a short period.
     
  30. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's pretty exciting to think about.
     
  31. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I like the pick in theory. We've needed somebody to provide a pass rush opposite wake for four years now. Better late then never I guess. If the kid can give us ten plus sacks per year we will be a playOff team again. I have a wait and see attitude though. He seems a bit one dimensional to me at this stage

    Good points on stopping the read option and being able to cover TEs. He looks like he should be able to do both. Should help vs the bills and pats.

    Although I'm not one hundred percent sold on the players themselves I like what ireland is doing positionally this season. Speed LBs and a speed WR and a fluid TE. Now bring home two olinemen to keep tannehill in one piece
     
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  32. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like Swope. Wonder if he can get had in the 4th though.
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    One dimensional?

    He can cover WRs for crying out loud.
     

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