Besides Ryan Tannehill, for obvious reasons, Vernon IMO is the biggest key to this past draft class. Though we can get good pressure on the QB, we struggle to actually get them to the ground. I thought he struggled through preseason, but so far in the 3 games it seems to me that Vernon has taken some nice strides in the limited action he's seen. If he can continue to get better and be the pass rusher we need then it would turn out to be one of the better picks from the draft. I'm interested to hear some of your thought on him.
The next time I see him engage a good pass rush will really be the first time in a Dolphins uniform, and I'm not exaggerating. That sack he shared with Odrick was Jared Odrick rushing the passer well (of course, from DT, not DE) and Vernon happening to be there to clean up the mess once Sanchez tried to scramble out of it. D'Brickashaw Ferguson didn't feel any pressure from Vernon's rush on that play. Vernon's been an 'OK' run defender and a surprisingly good special teams player. But even a competent level pass rush has eluded him.
I haven't noticed him at all really, which probably isn't a good thing if he's supposed to compliment our pass rush.
He's not been promoted over his level of competence in terms of his snap count and things of that nature, but he's a work in progress. I think I'd also like to see some of these players in contexts that aren't probable losers... So far guys like Vernon, Odrick, and Shelby have lined up largely over Left Tackle, and done so against good competition. The worst player they've faced so far is Jared Veldheer, who is a pretty quality left tackle.
He dropped back in a zone and Sanchez didn't anticipate it, threw it right to him and he dropped it, if remember correctly. That was more of A) a boneheaded mistake by Sanchez, and B) a disappointing attempt at a catch by Vernon. I'm not sure what he did on the play that is credit-worthy. He's been a pretty excellent special teamer though. I thought he more than anyone else (except Thigpen himself of course) was responsible for Marcus Thigpen's punt return touchdown against the Texans. That alone is a pretty big impact.
Literally every pressure/hit on QB recorded in the NFL gamebook by Odrick was from DT. I agree. Shocking.
I have no idea why anyone would think it a good idea to play Odrick at DE. I also have absolutely no faith Olivier Vernon will ever have much of an impact rushing the passer.
He didn't drop it, he had to dive for it and came up short. Going forward, what are your thoughts on Vernon? Could he turn into a big sack guy?
Odrick isn't being mis-used. Putting him wide of the tackle sometimes is neither new, nor a greater hindrance than what he's been asked to do in the base package for the last two years. It's pretty much the new Joey Porter playing DE.
IMO he is a very young player with upside to his game. what I noticed when watching him at UM was how he made plays around the line of scrimmage , not allowing a play to be 5 or 6 yards but maybe 2 or 3 . I think he can develop but I don't and don't believe we should expect him to be a productive edge rusher. he should be able to improve that aspect but i see him more of an all around front 7 seven player that may have a harder time finding his best spot, position wise. Expecting above average pressure from him may be a bit much , but he is very young , strong and his best play is ahead of him imo.
Above average? I'll take below average at this point. Anything other than zero, which is where he's at right now.
Well expecting above average isn't prudent at this point imo , but he is very young and shows potential as a productive football player , but if anyone thinks his main asset is to rush , pressure and sack the QB , they are mistaken imo. His draft position and age have to be accounted for , and this is , will be a learning year.
It's been mentioned on here previously but you get the feeling that Vernon's path in the NFL may well follow that of Koa Misi, with a move to LB and away from being involved in obvious passing situations. Of course even that isn't a sure thing, and pass rusher was the big need we had that appears unfilled. Maybe next year.
This might be true, esp. if Ireland wants to keep his job. He has more or less signed and drafted his way into a corner with the DL. Having to put more resources into the DL is unacceptable
he was dropping into coverage seemingly more against the Jets than he has in every other game (preseason included) combined.
My understanding of Olivier Vernon was that he was a project. A first round talent with 5th round ability. IMO, Dolphins drafted him too early. However I wasn't expecting much for him this season.
You're missing what I'm saying. I'm saying "above average" is very very far away from what he's presenting right now. Expecting above average may be unreasonable. But he's not even close to average at this point.
As a UM fan, I watched Vernon play throughout his career. I thought he played his best football during his freshman year at UM, and he NEVER showed any improvement after his first season with UM. I don't see him ever being an impact player in the NFL and I think he will just end up being a journeyman DL, who will end up playing for a few teams, before he eventually ends his career.
I wonder what happened to Marcus Robinson. He was probably the hardest working DL on that Hurricanes team and he actually had underrated ability. Very violent hands and an endless engine. I always liked Ojomo too. He dropped in coverage against HOU once by my count and he got beat because he didn't get enough depth.
Of all of the questions that persists with this years Dolphin team, and they are many, we still don't have a compliment to Cameron Wake. Cameron Wake may never be all that he can be until we have someone on the other side that can apply consistent pressure
Bottom line is there is still no pass rush.Want to see those passing yards against us go down? How bout' sack the QB? Wake's 'hurries' aren't going to do it if the QB just takes a step forward and has 3 more seconds to fire the ball. More 'pressure' from the DT's is what's needed.The run D is great but no push on those passing downs is whats eating us up.
I think Vernon could still develop. Hes still 21 and it was said post draft that had he returned for his senior year he may have been a 1st round pick this year. There are two things that worry me about vernon right now though that absolutely have to be fixed. One is that hes simply not strong enough. If you look at all the great DE's or even the good ones they are either one of two things at the very least...either extremely athletically gifted or extremely strong. Right now Vernon is neither. All the great DE's/Pass rushers like Wake, Cole, JPP, Clay Matthews, Woodley have one of the two if not both. I think its even more important from a 4-3 DE because they dont have any room to really build up momentum like a 3-4 OLB does. Vernon may never be extremely athletic by NFL standards but he can get much stronger. He can start by getting rid of some baby fat. Two is that he isnt real instinctive. Im not sure he can ever really fix this except through game situations but its definitely a flaw. Hes got to spend more time in the film room and on the field learning the game. Regarding Odrick, hes a DT playing DE cause we have no one else yet. That simple. As a DT in a rotation with Starks and Soliai thats really solid...maybe as good as you will find anywhere.
Exactly right. I can't say too little about what I think of this pick. He manages to look very active staying engaged and bloacked by his man. He has absolutely no quicks in his legs. He doesn;t come off blocks well enough to be considered good against the run, and he never gets past his man to threaten a QB. I suppose if someone else chases a QB innto him he may sometimes get a charity-sack. Another plodding, heavy-footed Phil Merling style guy... no wait, even Merling had more to offer, to be honest.
Philip Merling would have done fine if he had been asked to drop weight and play Strongside OLB. He had more to offer than Vernon does.
Jesus Christ, no chance. I'm not usually that certain in my opinions on players, but I'll mail you a six pack of the best beer in the world, Pliny the Elder, straight from Cali if Vernon ever has a double digit sack season in his career.
Les Brown would offer more to a team if they gave him a few years to develop than Vernon Ghols, I mean Olivier Vernon ever will. Actually, that's not fair... Olivier didn;t have high expectations and he is, fittingly, living up to those.
Well, if Ireland's fate rests on Olivier Vernon become a sackmaster... lol. The Fireland crew could be popping champagne a la '72 Dolphins very soon.
I amdit, I was surprised he wasn;t totally lost in space when he did. As a DE passrusher, no future. Maybe they're beginning to see this.
