Circle the wagons!
Circle the wagons!
There should be a question mark at the end of the thread title. There's no information suggesting the Dolphins are in fact "making a go at Josh Gordon".
Is there a workout portion of the Supp. Draft or is it a crapshoot? Considering many of these guys are off significant time and tape is limited coupled with the lack of a combine or pro-day workout, the supplemental draft seems like a huge gamble.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Rather see how our stable of WR's develop under new staff this season and have that 3rd rounder available next April because:
1. the kid would require equal or more development than several similar WR's now on our roster.
2. Next April we may not need a WR or there may be a better WR available.
3. Philbin/Ireland & staff will know a lot more what they need with the extra 3rd round pick next April.
Pass, unless the kid drops to a 4-5 at best.
2011 & 2006 World Champions, 2013 National League Champions; St. Louis Cardinals!
I like this guys potential and all but how many rookie/project WRs are we gonna keep realistically? Between cunningham matthews gates Moore Wallace and fuller, already only 1 or 2 of those will make the team behind Hartline Bess nannee and ochocinco. Granted you can stash a couple on the PS but we are already looking at cutting a bunch of these guys so unless they really think highly of this guy its gonna be hard to prove himself in the short time before cuts start
We're talking about someone who is bigger, faster, and stronger than Kendall Wright who went in the first round. I would take him over Mathews and Cunningham. Moore and Wallace haven't really shown me anything in the past. He would be our tallest WR next to Wallace.
Why would anyone be content with our current corp of wrs? I realize the issue with reps and opportunity, and loyality and so forth. But there are not many guys with this skill set currently on the roster (if you look at size and speed).
My report on Gordon, from another thread:
WR Josh Gordon, Baylor-Utah
*Josh Gordon was a 2 star recruit (Scout.com) out of Lamar High School in Texas, right in the back yard of Texas A&M.
*He was listed 6'4" and 215 lbs coming out of high school, supposedly running a 4.55 in the 40 yard dash.
*Had interest from Big 12 and Big Ten schools. Offers from Nebraska, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Baylor, Kansas & Missouri. Michigan had heavy interest.
*His top two schools ended up Mike Sherman's Texas A&M and Art Briles' Baylor. He chose Baylor over A&M.
*He had a 2.5 GPA in High School and a 21 on the ACT.
*Spent 2009 on the bench as a true freshman, amassing only 1 catch for 7 yards.
*Broke out in 2010 as a true sophomore catching 42 balls for 714 yards (17.0 YPC) and 7 TDs. Kendall Wright had 72 catches for 953 yards and 7 TDs.
*Worked almost exclusively on the right side of the formation out on the perimeter as a starter, playing nearly every snap.
*Size ranges between 6'3" and 6'4", at around 220 or 225 lbs. Listed size appears legit on tape.
*Speed ranges from mid 4.4's to reports of running in the 4.3's in practice. Speed appears legit on tape.
*Has legit acceleration and foot quickness to go with speed, is not a build-up speed/long-strider type.
*Is as strong and physical as you would hope a guy that big would be, really bullies DBs as a blocker, explosive punch, highly motivated.
*Limited role in 2010, perimeter-only, ran essentially three routes plus screens. Terrence Williams and Kendall Wright were varied more in usage.
*Clean hands catcher, showed the ability to track and haul in the over the shoulder ball.
*Good acceleration and excellent physicality after the catch. Effective on screens.
*Ability to get off the line at the snap and eat cushion stands out, tough for even 4.43 guys to cover deep one on one.
*Suspended indefinitely for an incident where he was arrested in a car that had a small amount of marijuana in it.
*Chose to leave Baylor and transfer to Utah because of the incident. Sat out the 2011 season as result of transfer.
*Daniel Jeremiah (Twitter: @MoveTheSticks) recalled seeing him at 2011 Utah practices and hearing coaches praise him highly.
*Will work out for scouts on July 10th, 2012. Supplemental Draft to be held July 12th, 2012.
*Utah coach on Josh leaving the program: "It wasn't the right situation for Josh so we parted ways." (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)
*Baylor coach on Josh: "I'll tell you what I've been telling the NFL: Josh is a great kid, super talent, just bad decisions. All the coaches here liked him. He was arrested in October 2010, and suspended 4 quarters, spread out over a couple of games I believe, but then failed a Baylor drug test late last spring. The Baylor administration kicked him out of school for the failed drug test, but Coach Briles went to bat for him with the higher ups, trying to let him stay. Coaches were disappointed about his leaving. Nobody thought he had a problem. It's not like he showed up to meetings or practice high or anything like that. I think he just got around with the wrong people not associated with the football team that persuaded his bad decisions. I'm not aware of any concerns the staff had for him coming out of high school, as his arrest in October 2010 was his first incident. It seemed he got along with everyone on the team and I can't think of any point where he was in confrontation on field or off. If football is all he has to focus on, then he'll thrive because he knows this is his last chance. I've gotten a lot of calls from NFL scouts about him, so I know there's a lot of interest. I haven't talked to any one team more than others. But I will say that a head coach has inquired about him." (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)
*Reports filtering through that he left school because of FINANCIAL NEED and that he also explored the possibility of transferring yet again back closer to home (remember he played high school ball at Lamar High School, TX) at Houston or Stephen F. Austin. Gordon's agent is the same one that convinced Jevan Snead to leave school early. (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)
*In order to successfully appeal to the NFL for entrance to the Supplemental Draft on the basis of financial need, Josh Gordon would have had to show that something significant happened between January and June that drastically changed his financial situation. (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)
My take: I love his talent. It reminds me of someone like Vincent Jackson. There is latent, under-appreciated RAC talent and a vicious blocker with solid hands and strong upper body all hidden inside him. We only last saw the guy play in 2010 as a true sophomore running limited roles in Art Briles' system. He could be up whole levels compared with what he was back then, after a year of practicing with the Utes. Having some idea how he's grown in that year should be key for whichever team drafts him, whether that means contacts at Utah, scouts personally having witnessed him practice, or just private workouts leading up to the Supplemental Draft. A team will also have to get comfortable with him off the field and have their arms wrapped around why he's leaving Utah after sitting out his transfer year. It's bad enough he ran away from Baylor after getting caught with marijuana. The Supplemental Draft is viewed pretty skeptically by the NFL, so his stock is likely to be compared more with the likes of Tommy Streeter than the likes of Stephen Hill. Production, history, character and experience level all point more to Streeter than Hill. But he's better than Streeter in my opinion, quicker off the line, more physical, more controlled, cleaner. If Streeter was taken in the 6th then I would think Gordon should go in the 4th or 5th. However, teams often bump grades down a round out of pure caution when it comes to the Supplemental Draft, so his base grade is more likely to be a 5th or 6th. I say base grade because character dig-up will affect it, as will how clear vision individual teams feel they have for how he evolved during his stay with Utah. Like I said that can either be achieved by having your west scout pound the table for the guy and say he's had his eye on this kid a long time and viewed him as one of his top receivers heading into 2012, or it can be achieved with a blowout private workout.
Dolphins take: Mike Sherman has some amount of experience with Gordon from having recruited him, and highly esteemed west scout Adam Engroff has doubtless been checking up on him since he transferred from Baylor to Utah. The Dolphins have been rumored to be sniffing around Kashif Montgomery, which means they're interested in another developmental prospect, perhaps specifically a fast and physically dynamic one, and so that puts them in the market for Gordon. I would not expect them to offer more than a 5th or 6th, though.
From the 2010 Texas Bowl, Illinois vs Baylor:
Screen catch for very little yardage, didn't seem to be expecting the ball
Watch how fast he gets off the blocks and down the field (btw, what an unpleasant looking woman...)
Seemed like this should've been called P.I. since it was 10 yards down the field. No catch...
Strong blocking for a receiver that comes in behind him...
Blocked his man into tomorrow on this play...
Screen catch and run for about 10 yards on 1st down, strong acceleration, good finish...
Runs a 12 yard curl route against off coverage, DB forced to back pedal aggressively, lots of separation, no throw...
Look how far the corners are playing off the Baylor perimeter WRs on 2nd & 10, respecting deep ability...ridonkulous...
Short catch with a good 5 yards of run after catch, including 3 yards after contact
Catch off the scramble with a DB on him immediately for the tackle
Corner plays 7 yards off the ball and turns hips early, Gordon still creates downfield separation, ball overthrown
Key block on a touchdown run to his side
One-on-one downfield with CB Travon Bellamy, draws the P.I. flag
Catch on a scramble drill against Bellamy
Another catch on an ill-timed throw, no run-after-catch because of timing
Nice out route catch against future standout CB Terry Hawthorne
Nice fake on Hawthorne, ball not thrown to him
Accidentally trips up his own runner trying to block for him
From a collection of 2010 Baylor football highlights:
Two consecutive plays...over the shoulder touchdown catch...impressive run after catch touchdown
Long vertical touchdown reception versus K-State
Deep vertical touchdown (I think versus TCU)
Another more impressive deep vertical touchdown versus TCU
Another deep touchdown
From the 2010 Kansas game:
Deep touchdown catch
Big block on a screen
94 yard touchdown catch and run off the screen
Big catch and run
From the Buffalo-Baylor 2010 game:
Screen catch and run...
From the Oklahoma State game 2010:
Screen catch and run, ball stripped, fumble recovered by Cowboys
NFL.com has a story saying either the Cowboys or the Redskins are giving a 3rd for him.
On phone or id post link.
That's why they play the games!
Evan Silva had a report that an NFC East team was prepared to use a 3rd on him. Cecil Lammey's sources tell him the Redskins' interest is marginal but the Cowboys' interest is heavy, so I'm assuming the Cowboys are the team prepared to use a 3rd. The Dolphins should have a higher draft order than the Cowboys though, and so if Miami wants to submit a 3rd rounder I believe they'd get Gordon.
But now I'm hearing talk he could even go in the 2nd round which seems crazy to me. I like the guy's talent, compare him to Vincent Jackson, but there's so much you don't know when he's only played one year in a limited role. Even taking aside the multiple marijuana incidents, and the mysterious leaving of Utah for "financial reasons"...there's a lot of unknown when it comes to the guy's aptitude for learning the position at the NFL level.
I love that he's fast, big, strong, explosive, a clean hands catcher that can catch over the shoulder, and he runs very controlled...but that's about all you can see on the limited amount of tape.
A 3rd round pick in the supplemental draft is silly. A 2nd round pick is just flat out gun-to-the-head-don't-kill-me-man desperation.
"Not you." — Tywin Lannister
Depends on the prospect. There are those that feel Josh Gordon would easily have been a 1st or 2nd round prospect if he stayed at Utah. It's hard to tell which underclassmen will leave and which will not, but looking at the senior receivers...I think Terrance Williams might be better, I think Aaron Mellette might be better...but is Ryan Swope better? Cobi Hamilton? Tavon Austin? I know Chad Reuter just got done posting that he doesn't see any 2nd round receivers that he particularly likes over Josh Gordon.
Crazy was when the Raiders used a 2nd rounder on Terrelle Pryor. That was insane.
I think Gordon in the 3rd sounds about right, and makes a lot of sense beyond needing a WR and having an extra 3rd.
There's an advantage in drafting a guy now as opposed to(or even in addition to) later. It's nice to start grooming a guy now rather than picking someone up in reaction to how Johnson/Bess/Hartline pan out next year. You're ahead of schedule on development, and you're in a good position now where you can reasonably get a player on the field while not being put in a position where you have to.
If it's true that Miami has been sniffing around Kashif Montgomery and is ready to sign him then you could see them try and draft Gordon.
Thank you giovafin for this awesome Sig!