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WR Josh Gordon, Baylor-Utah

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    WR Josh Gordon, Baylor-Utah

    Quick Points
    *Josh Gordon was a 2 star recruit (Scout.com) out of Lamar High School in Texas, right in the back yard of Texas A&M.
    *He was listed 6'4" and 215 lbs coming out of high school, supposedly running a 4.55 in the 40 yard dash.
    *Had interest from Big 12 and Big Ten schools. Offers from Nebraska, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Baylor, Kansas & Missouri. Michigan had heavy interest.
    *His top two schools ended up Mike Sherman's Texas A&M and Art Briles' Baylor. He chose Baylor over A&M.
    *He had a 2.5 GPA in High School and a 21 on the ACT.
    *Spent 2009 on the bench as a true freshman, amassing only 1 catch for 7 yards.
    *Broke out in 2010 as a true sophomore catching 42 balls for 714 yards (17.0 YPC) and 7 TDs. Kendall Wright had 72 catches for 953 yards and 7 TDs.
    *Worked almost exclusively on the right side of the formation out on the perimeter as a starter, playing nearly every snap.
    *Size ranges between 6'3" and 6'4", at around 220 or 225 lbs. Listed size appears legit on tape.
    *Speed ranges from mid 4.4's to reports of running in the 4.3's in practice. Speed appears legit on tape.
    *Has legit acceleration and foot quickness to go with speed, is not a build-up speed/long-strider type.
    *Is as strong and physical as you would hope a guy that big would be, really bullies DBs as a blocker, explosive punch, highly motivated.
    *Limited role in 2010, perimeter-only, ran essentially three routes plus screens. Terrence Williams and Kendall Wright were varied more in usage.
    *Clean hands catcher, showed the ability to track and haul in the over the shoulder ball.
    *Good acceleration and excellent physicality after the catch. Effective on screens.
    *Ability to get off the line at the snap and eat cushion stands out, tough for even 4.43 guys to cover deep one on one.
    *Suspended indefinitely for an incident where he was arrested in a car that had a small amount of marijuana in it.
    *Chose to leave Baylor and transfer to Utah because of the incident. Sat out the 2011 season as result of transfer.
    *Daniel Jeremiah (Twitter: @MoveTheSticks) recalled seeing him at 2011 Utah practices and hearing coaches praise him highly.
    *Will work out for scouts on July 10th, 2012. Supplemental Draft to be held July 12th, 2012.

    NEW UPDATES
    *Utah coach on Josh leaving the program: "It wasn't the right situation for Josh so we parted ways." (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)

    *Baylor coach on Josh: "I'll tell you what I've been telling the NFL: Josh is a great kid, super talent, just bad decisions. All the coaches here liked him. He was arrested in October 2010, and suspended 4 quarters, spread out over a couple of games I believe, but then failed a Baylor drug test late last spring. The Baylor administration kicked him out of school for the failed drug test, but Coach Briles went to bat for him with the higher ups, trying to let him stay. Coaches were disappointed about his leaving. Nobody thought he had a problem. It's not like he showed up to meetings or practice high or anything like that. I think he just got around with the wrong people not associated with the football team that persuaded his bad decisions. I'm not aware of any concerns the staff had for him coming out of high school, as his arrest in October 2010 was his first incident. It seemed he got along with everyone on the team and I can't think of any point where he was in confrontation on field or off. If football is all he has to focus on, then he'll thrive because he knows this is his last chance. I've gotten a lot of calls from NFL scouts about him, so I know there's a lot of interest. I haven't talked to any one team more than others. But I will say that a head coach has inquired about him." (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)

    *Reports filtering through that he left school because of FINANCIAL NEED and that he also explored the possibility of transferring yet again back closer to home (remember he played high school ball at Lamar High School, TX) at Houston or Stephen F. Austin. Gordon's agent is the same one that convinced Jevan Snead to leave school early. (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)

    *In order to successfully appeal to the NFL for entrance to the Supplemental Draft on the basis of financial need, Josh Gordon would have had to show that something significant happened between January and June that drastically changed his financial situation. (Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting)

    My take: I love his talent. It reminds me of someone like Vincent Jackson. There is latent, under-appreciated RAC talent and a vicious blocker with solid hands and strong upper body all hidden inside him. We only last saw the guy play in 2010 as a true sophomore running limited roles in Art Briles' system. He could be up whole levels compared with what he was back then, after a year of practicing with the Utes. Having some idea how he's grown in that year should be key for whichever team drafts him, whether that means contacts at Utah, scouts personally having witnessed him practice, or just private workouts leading up to the Supplemental Draft. A team will also have to get comfortable with him off the field and have their arms wrapped around why he's leaving Utah after sitting out his transfer year. It's bad enough he ran away from Baylor after getting caught with marijuana. The Supplemental Draft is viewed pretty skeptically by the NFL, so his stock is likely to be compared more with the likes of Tommy Streeter than the likes of Stephen Hill. Production, history, character and experience level all point more to Streeter than Hill. But he's better than Streeter in my opinion, quicker off the line, more physical, more controlled, cleaner. If Streeter was taken in the 6th then I would think Gordon should go in the 4th or 5th. However, teams often bump grades down a round out of pure caution when it comes to the Supplemental Draft, so his base grade is more likely to be a 5th or 6th. I say base grade because character dig-up will affect it, as will how clear vision individual teams feel they have for how he evolved during his stay with Utah. Like I said that can either be achieved by having your west scout pound the table for the guy and say he's had his eye on this kid a long time and viewed him as one of his top receivers heading into 2012, or it can be achieved with a blowout private workout.

    Dolphins take: Mike Sherman has some amount of experience with Gordon from having recruited him, and highly esteemed west scout Adam Engroff has doubtless been checking up on him since he transferred from Baylor to Utah. The Dolphins have been rumored to be sniffing around Kashif Montgomery, which means they're interested in another developmental prospect, perhaps specifically a fast and physically dynamic one, and so that puts them in the market for Gordon. I would not expect them to offer more than a 5th or 6th, though.

    YouTube Plays

    From the 2010 Texas Bowl, Illinois vs Baylor:

    Screen catch for very little yardage, didn't seem to be expecting the ball
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=87s

    Watch how fast he gets off the blocks and down the field (btw, what an unpleasant looking woman...)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=98s

    Seemed like this should've been called P.I. since it was 10 yards down the field. No catch...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=132s

    Strong blocking for a receiver that comes in behind him...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=169s

    Blocked his man into tomorrow on this play...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=201s

    Screen catch and run for about 10 yards on 1st down, strong acceleration, good finish...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=220s

    Runs a 12 yard curl route against off coverage, DB forced to back pedal aggressively, lots of separation, no throw...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=226s

    Look how far the corners are playing off the Baylor perimeter WRs on 2nd & 10, respecting deep ability...ridonkulous...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=244s

    Short catch with a good 5 yards of run after catch, including 3 yards after contact
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=252s

    Catch off the scramble with a DB on him immediately for the tackle
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=260s

    Corner plays 7 yards off the ball and turns hips early, Gordon still creates downfield separation, ball overthrown
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=281s

    Key block on a touchdown run to his side
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=329s

    One-on-one downfield with CB Travon Bellamy, draws the P.I. flag
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=345s

    Catch on a scramble drill against Bellamy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=404s

    Another catch on an ill-timed throw, no run-after-catch because of timing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=413s

    Nice out route catch against future standout CB Terry Hawthorne
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=493s

    Nice fake on Hawthorne, ball not thrown to him
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=520s

    Accidentally trips up his own runner trying to block for him
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=578s


    From a collection of 2010 Baylor football highlights:

    Two consecutive plays...over the shoulder touchdown catch...impressive run after catch touchdown
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=164s

    Long vertical touchdown reception versus K-State
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=264s

    Deep vertical touchdown (I think versus TCU)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=369s

    Another more impressive deep vertical touchdown versus TCU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=406s

    Another deep touchdown
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=446s


    From the 2010 Kansas game:

    Deep touchdown catch
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=21s

    Big block on a screen
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=50s

    94 yard touchdown catch and run off the screen
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=71s

    Big catch and run
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=95s


    From the Buffalo-Baylor 2010 game:

    Screen catch and run...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6i3Ub-1hs78#t=328s


    From the Oklahoma State game 2010:

    Screen catch and run, ball stripped, fumble recovered by Cowboys
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZHzARaArg1M#t=26s
     
    PhinsRock, ssmiami, Ludacris and 10 others like this.
  2. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Do you think he could be a starter this season or just a hopefull prospect?
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Hopeful prospect. We're talking about a 5th or 6th round Supplemental Draft pick that has missed off season training and OTAs, Mini Camps, etc...and will only have a training camp to try and make the team.
     
  4. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Sounds like if they could manage to get him with a 5th or less he could turn out to be well worth it. I was hopeing for one more addition to the wr group this season but he would be there for Tannehill next year if he's not a bust. In the vids his hand skills really stand out to me. If picked up we have to make sure he does not pick #19 or we all know those sticky hands will turn into bricks.
     
  5. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He is scheduled to work out for scouts this week - forgot where and sorry for the non-reference, it was a tweet I read. It would be interesting to see how many teams show, and what his overall performance is.

    EDIT: CK covered that. Either way, interesting to see if we attend his workouts.
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  6. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Thanks for the nice work. Interesting prospect.
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  7. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
  8. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats a very strong vote of confidence....Gordan sounds very intriguing.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Russ Lande is prone to going off map.

    I will say this...I never got the hype on Brian Quick, and I thought I was quite the progressive for talking up Kendall Wright back when Wright supposedly a 3rd or 4th round prospect according to major services...but then all the sudden he's supposed to be the best WR in the Draft or something like that and all I could think is whoa pump the brakes he's not THAT good. I think he was barely worth a 1st round pick and maybe not that.

    Given the fact that Gordon is a Supplemental Draft pick with a bunch of holes in his character and development history, I don't know how you can get anywhere greater than a 4th based on his film. And I certainly don't see how anyone can look at it and put a higher grade on him than Stephen Hill. But that's just me. The wildcard is how he's developed post-Baylor. He practiced for a year in Utah and he was only a true sophomore when he played for Baylor. He may have developed significantly since then.
     
  10. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Phins are young, have a ton of free agents next year, and are chock-full of mid-grade WRs. Gordon has some raw ability, but has very limited experience, and hasn't played in over a year. I can't see how using a draft pick on this guy could be justified.

    Is Gordon going to beat out Ocho, Hartline, Bess, or Nannee? I don't think so. They have 12 WRs right now... do they really need more competition for a #5? Again, I don't think so.

    I think the WR position could be addressed smarter than this. The Phins should pass on Gordon and take a stab at a higher-graded WR prospect in next year's draft, if they have the chance. Use the late pick to address another position. Just my opinion.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Updated with some information from Eric Galko of Optimum Scouting.

    Eric is a friend and he's going nuts a little bit about this financial reasons thing because he knows that something really significant and almost unprecedented would have had to happen between January and June in order to get the NFL to agree to let him in the Supplemental Draft. Generally players are admitted because they've been ruled ineligible to play by their teams. They can't just up and decide they're going to the Supplemental Draft because they've now decided they need the money.

    Either way it sounds like everyone at Baylor is willing to go to bat for him, though the Utah people are tight-lipped with the media (probably more frank with actual scouts).

    I'd say that this does affect my grade on him. The Baylor source said he was never a problem there, didn't come to practices high or anything, didn't get into fights, coaches willing to go to bat for him with the administration...he just tested positive for marijuana and was found in a friend's car at a drive-thru that had a small amount of marijuana in it. Stupid decisions. If he's coming out because of financial reasons and Eric is right then he will have had to prove to the NFL that his reasons for coming out are legit. At that point, I'm not willing to ding him significantly more on his character grade than any other player (e.g. Percy Harvin) that got caught doing some things they shouldn't have. In fact I have zero reason to believe Gordon is even as bad as Harvin because you'd never find someone at Florida willing to say the things about Harvin that this Baylor source said about Gordon.

    From there it comes down to Gordon's pro day and how he performs in front of everyone, showing how much he has developed while practicing for Utah for a year. If he rocks it, he could go pretty high...as high as the 3rd round I would think. The fact that he's got an NFL head coach personally inquiring about him is significant, as head coaches usually don't get involved in this.
     
    ssmiami likes this.
  12. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the current roster makeup at wr shouldn't discourage this team from going for him if for a reasonable price. I don't know the exact price that will be. But the notion the wr corp is deep enough is what gets teams beat. Some of you would say wasting draft picks would be unwise as well, but I don't think the Dolphins would have to spend more than a 4th or 5th round pick and most likely lower.
     
  13. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I understand why they have the rookie symposium when they do, but maybe they should push up the supplemental draft. While it's not guaranteed or supported by anything, often times, the supplemental draft players are the guys who need the symposium the most.
     

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