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"Tebow's trust in God's purpose makes backing up Sanchez more palatable"

Discussion in 'AFC East Rivals' started by ToddsPhins, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    ..... or something like that.


    PFF article: 'Tebow “not sure” he’ll be a starting quarterback again'

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/30/tebow-not-sure-hell-be-a-starting-quarterback-again/
     
  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    If God really hates gays, he will start sooner rather than later...
     
  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Generally speaking, the biggest thing I don't like about religion is how it allows a person to scapegoat failure, mediocrity, lack of achievement, etc onto "God's will".
    "It just wasn't meant to be."..... "It's not my time."..... "God must have other plans."..... or "If God wanted it to happen it would've.".

    IMO it can remove accountability by giving God too much credit for their own individual success or failure.
     
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  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    So what you're saying is he created pastel colors, Key West, and interior decorating for a reason? :shifty:
     
  5. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    That is so batsh-t.
     
  6. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    -Ed-
     
  7. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Bickety, I have a feeling this is a running joke for you and I can understand why if it is.
     
  8. Starry31

    Starry31 Phins and Heels.

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    I agree, it can be pretty annoying. Lose a big game: "Well you know, everything happens for a reason." Yeah, the reason you lost is because the other team was better.
     
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  9. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    yup. For once, instead of Tebow saying "I'm blessed", I'd like to hear him say "I'm at where I'm at b/c I worked my rear off for it.", something that gives credit to years of massive dedication and hard work.
     
  10. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    This is really more of a religious thing than a Tim Tebow thread at this point.

    I'm not religious and basically see religion as a way for people to make themselves feel that they are important because society pretty much devalues the individual and tells them that they are inferior to others due to monetary and social status. Not to mention most people are religious because it is what they were taught is "right" growing up. Not all, but most. It's the same as people who grow up in a cult. I saw these girls on TV that ran from their cult and all their life they were taught dinosaurs were a lie. Even once they got into the real world and school and away from said cult they couldn't shake that programming. Religion = programming.
     
  11. Layfield

    Layfield New Member

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    You want more athletes to be egotistical and arrogant? His humility and graciousness make him more likeable to me, not less.
     
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  12. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    It irritates people :)

    -Ed-
     
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  13. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    Thanks for explaining why religion is important to me. It all makes sense now.

    -Ed-
     
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  14. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    I don't think you understand. If Tebow used God as a scapegoat, why is he so successful? Trusting in God is not accepting failure. It's accepting the fact that sometimes it's just not meant to be. Whatever that "it" is.

    I remember when I was applying for finacial aid for college. I got some, but I didn't get all that I applied for. I was really upset about a few (of the bigger amounts) because I felt that I exceeded the criteria's they were looking for. However, after I matured some and thought a little more about it I realized a few things. First, I was still able to afford college. I was still able to graduate. And what if those other monies went to a person who if they hadn't of received then wouldn't have bene able to attend school? In short, God had a purpose if that's how you want to think about it. I went to school and the other person went to school.
     
  15. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    Then why are some rich people religious? Why is President Obama, the most powerful INDIVIDUAL in the world, openly religious? Your entire post is based on nothing but stereotypes and is quite frankly nonsensical. I've learned in life that if a person tries to paint one group of people with a broad brush, the person doing the painting ends up looking like Bozo the Clown.
     
  16. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    He won a few games last year and then got de-pantsed by the Patriots. Then was jettisoned like yesterday's trash when manning chose Denver.

    Let's not get carried away with the "successful" thing, shall we?
     
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  17. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    In a word...bull****.

    He said religion is programming. He's not lying. You answer me this, if it isn't why can't religious people accept when scientific facts prove one of their beliefs wrong? Scientists - when faced with facts that debunk their theories - change and adapt. Religious people don't, because to do so causes the fragile system they hold dear to collapse, and then they're left with nothing.

    You can call him bozo all you want, but the only ones wearing the red nose and floppy shoes are those who can't accept reality when it's right under their noses, and instead steadfastly grasp at straws with no proof to back them up.
     
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  18. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    This is basically it. You grow up in a religious family or in a religious society [such as most people in the middle east] and you are taught that this IS the way things are. You are taught in absolutes. God IS doing this or that. People will go to Hell if they don't do this that and the other. It's never anything like, 'Well Jimmy we believe that this is what's going on for such and such reason." No, it's always given out with the idea that there's no way it's wrong. That's why a lot of people get pissed about things like evolution being taught. I let some of my relatives take my kids to church when we're home in Florida. I don't have a problem with it. But when my kids ask me something about it or why I don't go I won't hesitate to tell them what I think even when it's in direct conflict to what my mother-in-law likes to tell them. [in absolutes of course] They can see the big picture and make up their own minds.
     
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  19. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    *looks into thread, backs out slowly*
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't want to get into this religious debate, but I just want to say I liked Tim Tebow's answer and will pray he leaves the Jets and finds success else where!
     
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  21. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Well more on topic Tebow is obviously a hard worker so I don't think he uses the whole 'God's will' thing as a way to get out of doing work or being accountable. I think he's just saying that he'll do his best and if it's not good enough for him to be an NFL starter then he's at peace with that.
     
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  22. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    That's exactly what he is saying, but....you know....he's on the Jets, so that means find anything you can and make fun of him for it.

    I have no problem with people ripping him for his performance or lack thereof. But something like this? Come on. I am all for a good joke, but how would it be received if people were constantly making fun of Muslim football players?
     
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  23. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I am fairly certain he wasn't just talking about his NFL career, which has just begun. I think it wouldn't be a stretch to say he had a pretty successful college career.
     
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  24. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    I thought he meant with the ladies.... too soon? :shifty:
     
  25. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Stevie Johnson does not approve this post.

    [​IMG]
     
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  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I don't have a problem with Tebow. I have a problem with Tebow fans. They act like he is their god's right hand man. Why would their god make a football player win instead of helping a scientist cure cancer or something. Seems silly to me.

    I think Rex wanted him in Jersey, because he found out Jesus gives out a lot of free food and there's even some foot washing in the Bible.
     
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  27. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Cuz science is the devil!


    Sent from my iPad
     
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  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Did I say that? NO.
    Nice try twisting my words though in order to make an entirely unrelated point at the sacrifice of mine, and anyone who Fist Pumped it deserves 10 lashings.
    READ THE LITERAL TRANSLATION. What does "for once" mean? Did I say "I wish he'd become egotistical & arrogant? NO!!!
    Do you even know what egoism & arrogance mean? Do you know what humility and graciousness mean? Can a person credit their hard work without losing humility and without being arrogant in approach? YES.

    Do you honestly think Tebow would lose ALL his humility & graciousness by crediting his hard work and dedication for once? :glare:

    Is it ARROGANT & EGOTISTICAL to occasionally credit the hard work you've done so that kids who idolize you understand there's more to success than being touched by the hand of God? So, occassionaly have a spine, make people know that hard work pays off and that each person is accountable for his own actions in the regard that his success & achievements (or lack there of) are based on what he creates for HIMSELF rather than being determined by destiny, God's will, or God's plan for you. Therefore if you think it's "arrogant" to help motivate your fans and followers into ACTING rather than passively WAITING, then your priorities are screwed up!! Everything that Tebow has accomplished is because of TEBOW, not some outside entity working through him.

    It's ALLLLL TEBOW, HARD WORK, MASSIVE DEDICATION, DETERMINATION, SACRIFICE, PERSEVERANCE, GOOD GENETICS, AND A STRONG SUPPORTING CAST TO PUT HIM ON THE RIGHT TRACK AND HELP KEEP HIM THERE. Kids need to know this. You're acting ridiculous to think Tebow shouldn't convey this just b/c you think it "compromises humility". !!Gimme a break!! You're right bro, it's better to be passively humble to the extent that kids are left believing God decides who succeeds and who doesn't, and if they're not succeeding at something then maybe they should just give up on it or not try so hard b/c God didn't choose them like he did Tebow. :glare:



    So are you saying is it's better to lie and always credit to an outside source while rarely to never crediting the actual one?
     
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  29. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    WTF?! Fireland! Fireland!

    -Ed-
     
  30. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Tebow is successful for the reason's I listed above, not b/c of "God". Tebow trusting in God is merely coincidental. If he believes that God allows him to work as hard as he does, then that's his choice (if it is the case). The bottom line is--- he works his butt off for it and knows he works his butt off for it, and he doesn't use his trust in God as an excuse to sit back, take a wait & see approach and not put in the effort. You're talking about it as if Tebow's the norm when he's the exception.


    No, it's not. However, a person not working as hard to obtain a goal b/c they feel God (or destiny) has a part to play in it can lead to failure..... and any failure can lead to the mentality of "Trusting that God has a plan", hence rationalizing their failure rather than taking accountability for role in it and the fact that perhaps they didn't work as hard for it as they should have. Trusting in God also takes away from putting trust in YOURSELF.

    Basically, if it's "God's plan" then it's not entirely my plan either, is it. Therefore if it's not entirely my plan and I don't know exactly what "God's plan" is for myself, then I might not work as hard to achieve in life outside of simply being a good, devout Christian or whatever, which their religion further feeds into by essentially preaching it's ok to not achieve goals b/c the only thing that matters is if you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior and try to live a good Christian life, and if you stick with us you'll always feel accepted. You just have to do & act how we say and believe what we tell you to believe just like any cult does.


    That's a very nice rosy picture of it. Unfortunately that's not reality, and unfortunately Tebow's case isn't the universal one. For many people, "What's meant to be, is meant to be.", is first used to rationalize a lack of attaining a want or goal.

    I don't think you understand that not everyone works as hard as Tebow, but that doesn't mean people don't have dreams or goals. So for the MANY people who have simple goals & dreams but don't work hard enough to attain them, they almost always absolve themselves of responsibility by immediately saying "I guess it's just not meant to be", or "It wasn't meant to happen", or "God has other plans", b/c that's IMMENSELY easier on their psyche than admitting to themselves they failed. What happens after enough of these "It wasn't meant to happens"? Self-fulfilling prophecy. All this stuff is basic human behavior as well as coping mechanism that allows each person's belief of himself to stay consistent. If you want to see just how powerful it is, look at Vietnam POW victims.

    I'm sorry, but what does any of this random coincidence have to do with how hard you do or don't work to achieve something? Nothing.
    All you did was tell a nice story and used "God's purpose" as a way to nicely interpret it in a way to help rationalize what happened, no offense.

    All that is, is common psychological egocentrism-- the tendency to perceive, understand and interpret the world in terms of the self.

    From your eyes, "God's purpose" of this college experience worked out well for you and another person. How about if you instead look at it as, Your scholarship completely prevented someone else from getting one, someone who might have made even better use of it and gone on to become an influential difference maker in society (perhaps you only got it over him b/c he had to balance studies with work and taking are of his brothers and sisters due to a crack addict father and absent mother working 3 jobs, but b/c he didn't get the scholarship and had a family financially unable to afford it, he instead went to community college [when he could afford it] while also working full time, and in a desperate attempt to get ahead and secure money for his education he goes against his beliefs and begins selling pot, gets busted, gains a criminal record, and subsequently watches his dreams flush down the toilet. Would that still be the same "God's purpose" where everything worked out great for all involved?
     
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  31. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    Science puts men in space, religion flies planes into buildings.

    /discussion.
     
  32. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I've converted to Tebowism and I have immense faith. Just because I've never seen him throw a spiral doesn't mean I don't believe he can. It's the essence of Faith.

    Thanks be to Tebow. Amen.

    -Ed-
     
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  33. Starry31

    Starry31 Phins and Heels.

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    :lol: Forgot about that little tweet, but does make my point. He was on my fantasy team too, catch the damn ball!
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    How is saying, "I worked hard" egotistical and arrogant?
     
  35. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    how often are successful people the ones that take credit for what they've done? often the ones that do are the type of people that have success that does not last because they view themselves as more powerful than they are an example would the people at Enron. I understand he worked hard but at some point he learned his ability to work hard if his faith in god helps push him that hard than is giving thanks to that wrong? Would you rather him be thankful when things went well but be a hypocrit when everything goes wrong?
     
  36. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    In my line of work I spend a lot of time with people from the Dominican republic and if you do not think that religion, regardless of your beliefs, has affected how you act then you are disregarding generations of establishing social norms.
     
  37. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    Stop. Please. Humility and graciousness? If he were truly humble, he wouldn't draw attention to himself every time he passes gas by doing that stupid genuflect.

    The vast majority of the NFL are Christian. You don't see them drawing attention to themselves like he does. If a Muslim player knelt toward Mecca every time he scored, I doubt you'd be calling him "humble".


    Again, stop. I was trashing him way before he was on the Jets. We can reverse that...the only reason you're defending him is because he IS on the Jets. :p
     
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  38. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    See, there you go. You just gave an example of exactly what I've been saying. You're throwing accountability to an external source. It's no different than saying, "My faith in God told me to drive my car full of kids into a lake.". At the end of the day, YOU'RE accountable for your own actions, and at the end of the day YOU'RE the one doing the acting. What you accomplish is up to you, not some invisible being, and if you don't accomplish it, it's not b/c you didn't have enough faith in God; it's because you, yourself, didn't do it.

    Faith is a broad word, so stop acting like "God" is the reason it works. Faith is faith. PERIOD. You could put the same amount of faith in yourself and you'd still get the same result. "God" isn't what makes faith work; your faith (extreme belief) in something, anything, is what makes it work. If I have enough faith in the tooth fairy giving me a hundred bucks for my tooth, I might try a little harder to accomplish something. "If you're good this year, Timmy, Santa Claus might give you a new bicycle!".

    Basically, what you're saying is Tim's faith in God rewarding him with a trip to heaven is like a little kid's faith in Santa rewarding him with a new bike. Are you serious? So you're saying adults have to be treated like little kids in order to accomplish anything? Gimme a break.

    If you believe a person can ONLY be motivated to accomplish something and succeed b/c of "faith in God", then that person is obviously using an external source as a crutch. If you can't set a goal for yourself and let the achievement of that goal serve as enough motivation, then you have problems. Conversely, if the actual achievement of a goal isn't enough motivation all by itself, then just how badly did you want it in the first place? Taking that a step further, if a person needs "God's influence" to achieve a goal b/c he couldn't do it on his own, then maybe it wasn't a real goal of his to begin with but was rather one his religion created for him instead. :wink2:

    For instance, do you think it's a person's goal to strap a bomb to his chest and blow up a building, thus ending his existence in the process? I seriously doubt it. Who's goal is it? Supposedly his God's.

    Faith is nothing more than a very strong belief in something, to the verge of confidence. The stronger the faith, the greater the confidence. "I'm going to attend church every sunday and accept Jesus as my Lord & Savior because I'm confident he will reward me.". "The more confident I am in Jesus and the stronger my belief in being rewarded with a trip to heaven, the harder I'll work to become a better Christian." <<< that's how it works. The underlying catalyst in this equation is "confidence", "strong belief", and "desire to achieve a goal", not God or heaven. People should be capable of creating this on their own w/o the aid of the biggest bribe mankind has ever seen---- "If you do this this and this and live like this and act like this, I'll reward you with something more valuable than success, wealth, and all the sex you can handle; I'll save your soul from burning in an imaginary hell for all eternity."
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The successful people who give credit don't always give credit to god. They give credit to their coaches, mentors and people who have helped them get to where they are.
     
  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Maybe there's a "real" god out there who sneakily tests how logical, reasonable, and prone to outside influence each individual is, and it's actually this criteria (along with the kind of life a person lives) that he uses to determine who gets into "heaven"; thus he created a fake god & devil etc to test our ability to resist persuasion, hence explaining the reason for tons of different religions existing due to the fact religion represents the highest form of persuasion, even higher than the power of the vagina. It's so strong that even the "face that launched a thousand ships" takes a back seat. Hence, this god created the ultimate weeding-out process. Therefore, this real god is judging you on whether or not you buy into some contrived religion, one that requires you to believe in illogical stories while discrediting much of what he's created and accomplished--- like dinosaurs, the big bang, evolution, etc. In this god's eyes, persuasion is persuasion; it doesn't matter if it's a bomb strapped to your vest, handing out a rose at the airport, or believing that accepting Jesus represents your only salvation. If you compromise yourself, you compromise yourself. But you know what? This god's smart. He doesn't let you know his "actual" intentions b/c he doesn't want to influence your actions, and he does this because he knows it's difficult to judge a person's true intentions when ulterior motives are present. Therefore, in this god's eyes, those who fall for the persuasion of religion are actually the ones who go to his version of hell. :wink2:
     

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