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Quinton Coples pre draft visit to Miami

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 54Fins, Mar 18, 2012.

  1. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Boik14 likes this.
  2. jpep13

    jpep13 Coach Of The Year Club Member

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    The Dolphins brain trust will find a way to screw it up
     
  3. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Neat. Thanks.
     
  4. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Theres alot of rumors out there about him having poor work ethic and not really being a high motor guys isnt there?
    I like the idea of adding him more if we had the QB position filled, and #1WR... however we dont have either filled at this point.
     
  5. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, CK pointed out that he's a great run defender. If that's the case, I'd imagine it impossible for a player to be both a great run defender and lack a high motor. Just sayin'.
     
  6. fins4o8

    fins4o8 Mac FTW!

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    Does this mean we won't draft him esp with our smoke & mirror philosophy? Come on down, Tannehill!
     
  7. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    I've heard here and there that he takes plays off.
    Well,let's hope that was a College thing that he didn't want to get hurt.(draft position / $)
    He was the best D player on the team like Jason Pierre-Paul yet there were rumors of JPP being raw and others
    shied away during the draft,right?
    Thing is,with all the crap about not having that QB in FA we all wanted,don't forget there are dominant D players out there
    that will fill a need next season.
    Looks like a player that will compliment Wake to me.
     
  8. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely has talent. Work ethic has been questioned. May not be the high character, hard working player to plays the game right Philbin is looking for.

    Way to early to put him in Paul-Pierre's class.

    Doubt he will ever be able to do 13 back handsprings in a row...

    [video=youtube;V4-1e6Faglw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4-1e6Faglw[/video]
     
    Pandarilla likes this.
  9. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Have to say the vid made me laugh :lol:
     
  10. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    The fact that the NFL considers the Bills a team is unbelievable.
     
    pacadermng67, phineas64, SICK and 2 others like this.
  11. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a draft guru and I don't pretend to be, but he doesn't remind me of Jason Pierre-Paul. JPP is a lot quicker.
     
  12. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how we can take Coples at #8 now that the draft is our only avenue for a QB.
     
  13. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I liked coples at 8 till we traded marshall just don't see how we can fill our offensive holes now if we go de at 8
     
  14. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    i think if you were to compare the 2 ... you'd find very little in common, outside of position.
     
  15. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    but then again, all visits to miami are a bit daft nowadays...meeting with Ross and Ireland must be like stepping back in time.

    I don't care what anybody says, Jeff Ireland will absolutely snap by the end of the season, "Abominable" style.

    [​IMG]

    Jeff..not..let..free agent...leave!
     
  16. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really, really like Coples. But, if Miami doesn't reel in Alex Smith, I just can't see any way Ross or Ireland can afford to take a player that isn't a QB or WR. Not only be auss we need both, but it will kill ticket sales even moreso than things are now.
     
  17. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    Not jpp more like peppers or Williams, of course not proven yet, but size power, ability to get to the QB. Unfortunately without a QB or #1 WR we don't have the luxury
     
  18. DHPVW

    DHPVW DuB addict

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    would love Coples or Upshaw with our 1st but we need a WR. just don't see it happening now that Marshall is gone
     
  19. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    Nope.

    Think we'll get another sweep over the Bills next season? I do.
     
  20. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Please draft Coples; he'll quit on your team as well.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    This made me LOL.
     
  22. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I see the strength and power in Coples. I just don't see that closing burst though. He lacks that third gear to get to the QB. I'd like him more in a 3-4 than a 4-3 to be honest.
     
  23. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Yes.
     
  24. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like Coples a ton, but without Flynn in the fold its got to be a QB at 8. I dont really want to know about anything else but Tannehill. The only scenario that would be acceptable here would be to take Coples at 8 and then trade back in to the end of round one to grab Osweiler. I wouldnt mind that one bit. As a matter of fact El Jefe should strongly consider it.
     
  25. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Sure let's draft another player who will have an insignificant impact on wins/losses. A luxury we cannot afford without a QB.
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'd have to respectfully disagree. IMO he's a perfect LDE with the size to help stop the strong side run and the length to be disruptive in the pass game even when not applying pressure to the QB. He's not an elite pass rusher, but he's a very good pass rusher who will only get better as he gains his "man" strength.

    And like Alen mentioned in another thread, I don't see these issues regarding "work ethic or character concern". It's just like Greg Little last year. I expressed that the knock on him was nothing but injected misinformation attempting to push his value down by teams secretly sporting a woody for him and that he'd end up being drafted in the 2nd round when it's all said and done. The rumors put forth about Coples are from teams who are praying he falls to them b/c this is a kid with NFL size and NFL ability who can help make your defensive front a force with the right pieces around him, and Soliai, Wake, Odrick, and Starks are exactly that. You don't need All Pros at every LB & DB position if you have a dominant Dlline, which also means not having to draft an ILB at #8 if you have both a dominant Dline in front of him and 2 quality LBs already on the roster.


    IMO Miami should pursue Coples with a 2 part goal.
    Part 1: draft Coples and stick him at LDE.
    Part 2: draft his complimenting pass rushing piece that allows him inside during nickel where he would be considered a great pass rusher.
    Either go after a guy who would eventually replace Wake at RDE or acquire/draft a hybrid type who can start at SOLB and move to DE in nickel.


    Then when we want to change the look and run a 3-4, Coples & Odrick become the DEs, Soliai the nose, and Wake & "Part 2" become the OLBs, and no one has to leave the field or be subbed in. Quinton's scheme versatility to play 43 DE, 34 DE, and nickel pass rushing DT make him the ideal pick IMO, not to mention, we should draft him just to keep him away from Buffalo b/c if the Bills get him on their nasty Dline, it might not matter if we have a franchise QB when we play them.
     
    54Fins and UCF FINatic like this.
  27. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    it's funny how we disagree with a lot of the guys in this years draft lol, but I see your point. Always enjoy reading your impute and thoughts. I never really considered pushing him inside on 3rd downs. That could allow for a very good pass rush with odrick and wake as the other dt and de respectively. That being said who would then be our other DE?

    I've never really had a problem with his work ethic to be honest. I just am concerned about his ability to get to the QB. I just haven't seen that many great pass rush moves from him and I don't know if he can really get sideways and maneuver around and under the tackles like some other elite des. I could see him getting a lot of coverage sacks and pressures, but I really don't know if I see the ability for him to come in and take over a game from DE. Just my thoughts. I just see him more as a 3-4 cover the run, hold up blocks and occasionally get to the QB compared to an Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or even a Robert Quinn kind of DE that can tuck their ears back and get to the QB. I honestly think if Coples was 3 inches shorter and a couple pounds lighter he wouldn't even be considered being drafted this high.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Drafting Coples helps set us up to be more specialized by giving us the ability to pursue LBs who are great in coverage rather than the jack of all trades type
    but average in coverage. And as soon as the opportunity arises to acquire another huge, talented DE to pair with Coples, we snatch him up to complete it all. That's what the Giants do, and it's been highly effective for them.

    IMO it's timeless b/c if the NFL begins trending toward the power run game to counter defenses gearing up to defend the pass, then you still have a dline physical enough to play the run.
     
  29. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    Both Todd and Ucf bring great points to the table about coples.. But I do believe he will be a special player at the next level. He needs to finish better when getting to the QB but he still does get to the QB he also is a mountain of a man who is perfect for against the run. Boik was correct though, a month ago he was the perfect pick, now we have some glaring holes needing TLC. For new readers and posters, ck Ucf and Todd are great with draft analyzing. There are a bunch others but always consider their opinions, keep it up guys I get all giddy reading about the potential draft picks
     
    UCF FINatic and ToddsPhins like this.
  30. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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  31. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    I can't wait to see how many teams stack the box against us next year, I can even see people not using more then one defensive back to cover two recievers
     
  32. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    Osweiler looks incredibly raw and ill prepared for the NFL to make any immediate impact. I'd sooner see us grab Coples at 8 and just grab Weeden, personally.

    But I'm not crazy about any of the QBs left...not that I know anything about scouting in all reality. But Osweiler just doesnt look remotely ready to step in, which is ultimately what we need to draft for at QB. Tannehill is raw but with more upside and honestly, looks better in film for me than Osweiler. Just my $0.02
     
  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Ditto, UCF. :knucks: That's what I love about draft time--- we all disagree about something, no one is right about everything, and we all hopefully learn something new or see an angle that we weren't initially imagining.

    That's where it becomes a 2 part thing IMO, and we'd have to find "that guy". IMO it's the perfect opportunity to bring in Wake's future replacement who starts out as a situational nickel pass rusher allowing Coples to move inside. Wake would flip to LDE where he seems most comfortable, and our situational pass rusher would come in at RDE where he would eventually stay full time.

    IMO the perfect guy is Andre Branch (and not just b/c he's from Clemson), and if we acquired Coples, I'd consider trading up for Andre b/c the fit is just too ideal IMO. He's a bit raw so he'll need some time to develop into our 3 down starting RDE, which is perfect b/c Wake is already there, but Branch is physically talented enough of a pass rusher with an NFL body to be effective as a situational pass rusher early on. Plus, if we're going to run a hybrid defense, he's the perfect guy capable of going from RDE to OLB who can play with his hand in the dirt one down and stand up the next. TBH his size, ability, length, athleticism, and versatility in that regard reminds me a bit of Connor Barwin's. Having Branch and Coples (and their versatility) along with Soliai & Odrick's versatility would allow us to do a lot defensively and run different looks with ease IMO.

    If we don't go that route, the other alternative is Bruce Irvin whom we groom into our future SOLB while serving as a situational pass rusher in the meantime. When that guy gets over 250 pounds and develops both the understanding of the game and technique to match his natural instincts and attitude, he's gonna be a force IMO. If I take a step back for a moment, look at the big picture, and envision a defense 3 years from now with Coples at LDE, Branch at RDE, Irvin at SOLB, and Soliai & Odrick at DT, I'm looking at something potentially game-changing. I know we have a lot of needs to fill, but what that trio would allow us to accomplish defensively would leave me postponing those other needs until later in the draft or even the following one b/c IMO that's the kind of trio (along with Odrick) that you can keep in place and more easily build around for nearly a decade which I think would help make our future drafts a lot easier and allow us more freedom to use higher draft picks on offensive weapons and playmaking DBs.

    I agree with much of this, which is why Coples is a 2 part thing IMO. He's not the guy you go after to be your #1 pass rusher, but on the left side with the right pieces around him that allow you to use his versatility, he's someone who can be a real force for your defense and can make your other guys better as well as allow your LBs to be better in coverage b/c his size & strength paired with Solia & Odrick should make the dline quite stout vs the run w/o a major need for a run stuffing LB.

    If it helps, you could view him as a stud nickel DT who has the ability to be a great 4-3 LDE on both 1st down and 2nd & 3rd and short, b/c ideally we'll acquire a pass rush specialist whom we can turn loose like a Von Miller (and Bruce Irvin could be that guy), but Miller and Coples are a different breed b/c Miller isn't a LDE; Von would get absolutely destroyed against the run as a strong side 4-3 end. That's where Coples comes in. Ideally you'd have both Coples and Miller together b/c they can coexist and are a perfect compliment to each other since Miller is a hybrid 4-3 SOLB in Denver who moves to standup LDE in nickel, and Coples is a stud LDE capable of moving inside where he'd be an ideal nickel pass rusher. The harmony & versatility would be perfect. Denver currently does that with Robert Ayers & Miller, and Coples would be a definite upgrade over the 1st round Ayers.

    IMO we need to take a step back and look at the actual positions themselves rather than the players. On first down and run downs you want a LDE who can hold his own and help stuff the strong side run, no? That in turn allows us to pursue a pass rushing SOLB who might not necessarily need to be quite as stout vs the run. If the LDE is an above average pass rusher, that's a plus b/c there's a reason there are few Mario Williams & Julius Peppers type monster DEs who are beasts in both aspects of the game. In nickel you want a DT who can apply pressure and make plays on QBs stepping up in the pocket trying to avoid the outside pressure. Bingo, that's Coples. He's just about everything you look for as a 1st & 2nd down LDE with the size and effectiveness to move inside in nickel.

    Then you go after Bruce Irvin to form your own Miller-Ayers/SOLB-LDE duo.
     
  34. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    The thing is I see as a couple potential problems in this thought process. One of the biggest being the personnel we have right now.

    We have Cameron Wake, Paul Soliai, Jared Odrick, Randy Starks, Tony McDaniels, and Phillip Merling. So right now our base defensive line would be
    1st and 2nd downs- Jared Odrick - Paul Soliai - Randy Starks - Cameron Wake
    3rd downs- (We need a pass rushing RDE) - Jared Odrick (moved in to DT) - Randy Starks - Cameron Wake

    If we are to draft Quinton Coples and do as you say here would be our line-ups:
    1st and 2nd downs- Quinton Coples - Paul Soliai - Jared Odrick - Cameron Wake
    3rs downs- (We need a pass rushing RDE) - Quinton Coples (moved to DT)- Jared Odrick - Cameron Wake

    So drafting Coples, in my opinion doesn't really make our defensive line that much better in my opinion. PLUS, you still have the problem of who is going to rush the passer from the right side on 3rd downs, so it doesn't really solve any problems. So if we do draft Branch for that position, lets assume that he makes it to the 3rd round (big assumption, doubtful in my opinion) you are going to use two of your four top 100 picks on defensive line? That just doesn't seem smart considering our other team needs/weaknesses. I really feel like we should just add a Branch or someone else in the 3rd round to be that RDE on 3rd downs and keep our line as it is for the most part.

    Here is another HUGE point in my opinion: We have a "Quinton Coples" on our team right now... and his name is: Jared Odrick. He can play the RDE position on rushing downs and then kick in and rush the passer from the DT position on 3rd downs. Here is my argument for him:
    1.) He had 6 sacks over the last 11 games of last season.
    2.) He has a similar body to Coples. Odrick is 6'5 and 304(at the combine he was 296) Coples is 6'6 and 285. I think if you tell Odrick your plans he can lose 15 pounds before the start of the season and be right about where Coples is.
    3.) Odrick started his Penn State career off as a DE and was later moved to DT. Very similar to Coples. If you watched Coples play this year they very often lined him up at DT. Jon Gruden even had this to say about Odrick,
    Even still if you draft Coples and move him inside that means you are taking Randy Starks off the field. Starks has been a pretty decent pass rusher in his own right getting about 15 sacks over the past 3 years. He could be a force inside on 3rd downs, and I am not sure how big of an upgrade Coples would be over him.

    All in all, originally I was open minded to drafting Coples but now I am firmly against it. His addition wouldn't greatly improve the defensive line in my opinion; but more importantly we would still need to spend another top 100 pick on a DE to rush the passer from that right side on 3rd downs. Essentially by drafting Coples it would take Starks off the field and relegate him to the bench. I am a pretty big fan of Starks and think he could be great as a 4-3 DT in both running and passing downs (He ranked 9th in Maryland's sack list when he entered the draft as a Junior). If you really want a guy like Coples on your team I really think Odrick could be that man and play the "Coples role". Our team has too many holes to draft Coples, especially when it wouldn't significantly upgrade our defensive line that much. I think we should spend our first pick on OL, QB (not huge on Tannehill, but he is an option at this point), WR, or trade down which is most likely in my opinion.
     

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