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Thread: Dolphins Draft Predictions

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    Quote Originally Posted by rafael View Post
    The attraction with Green is as a move TE. His size and speed give him the potential as seam threat. Arguably his ceiling is higher than Clay's. I like Clay, but I see him as far from a sure thing. Green would be a double up at the position with the hope that one hits. I also don't care much about the blocking. I see blocking for a TE to be mostly about attitude and teaching. If somebody is willing to learn you can teach most anybody to be a wall off blocker. So not seeing a TE block on tape would only bother me if he came off as unwilling to be coached in the interview or his coaches said he was unwilling. But that would take him off my board for more than just the blocking. So barring that, I would consider Green from the 4th round on.
    I dn't think the Dolpins will touch Green and I don't see upside any greater than Clay's. Move TE or not, he still has to block people. And to say that it's a passing league - as Fin intimated - means nothing. It's a great term but teams still run the football and you still need to protect the passer. You become one dimensional when you bring in a specific move TE because you know he's not going to block a hoot therefore already the play is 50% easier to decipher than before.

    Aaron Hernandez was a run blocker on 406 plays last season for the Patriots. That's four hundred and six.

    Finley is an improving blocker year on year.

    Look at the top 12/15 TE's in the NFL. Beyond Aaron Hernandez who stayed in to block or run blocked 40% of the time he was on the field, there's not a move TE in the top 12/15. Seems a monumental waste of a pick for a team that needs WR's and TE's to waste a pick on a tweener. All well and good if it's Hernadez, a top 45 talent without the off field issues, but he's not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UCF FINatic View Post
    Respectfully, I have to disagree. I know Green can't block, but neither can Finley or a lot of the new breeds of TEs. He can present match up problems though, more so than Clay could. First off we already have a complete more blocking based TE in Fasano. So I think are looking for a more receiving based TE. You can get value by drafting GReen later in the draft than you would with say a more complete TE like Dwayne Allen.

    Also I love Clay as much as the next guy, but I think some people over estimate his contributions.
    Which new breed of TE's can't block?
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    Green has the body to add 10-15 lbs of muscle assuming he has the work ethic, as a pass catching threat he looks to be the real deal though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Which new breed of TE's can't block?
    Jimmy Graham, Fred Davis, Jared Cook, Finley, Brent Celek isn't that great, neither is Dustin Keller.

    Finley couldn't block anyone coming out either... He was labeled a tweener like Green.

    If you don't think Green is on our board at all, who do you think we would draft TE wise? I am just curious...
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    Quote Originally Posted by UCF FINatic View Post
    Jimmy Graham, Fred Davis, Jared Cook, Finley, Brent Celek isn't that great, neither is Dustin Keller.

    Finley couldn't block anyone coming out either... He was labeled a tweener like Green.

    If you don't think Green is on our board at all, who do you think we would draft TE wise? I am just curious...
    Fleener - egnew
    2013 draft wish list (10/10/12)
    Round 1 - Keenan Allen - WR - Cal
    Round 2 - Kenny Vaccaro - FS - Texas
    Round 2 - Jordan Poyer - CB/KR - Oregon State
    Round 3 - Tank Carradine - DE - FSU
    Round 3 - Kevin Reddick - ILB - North Carolina

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcouch1021 View Post
    Fleener - egnew
    Thing with that is Fleener is going to be a 1st round pick and with Egnew I am just not really sold on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UCF FINatic View Post
    Thing with that is Fleener is going to be a 1st round pick and with Egnew I am just not really sold on.
    I think fleener could drop. Nines and giants people are thinking? I can see giants drafting LB, and miners drafting a WR. If not fleener I do like Allen who seemed to have dropped off many peoples boards
    2013 draft wish list (10/10/12)
    Round 1 - Keenan Allen - WR - Cal
    Round 2 - Kenny Vaccaro - FS - Texas
    Round 2 - Jordan Poyer - CB/KR - Oregon State
    Round 3 - Tank Carradine - DE - FSU
    Round 3 - Kevin Reddick - ILB - North Carolina

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcouch1021 View Post
    I think fleener could drop. Nines and giants people are thinking? I can see giants drafting LB, and miners drafting a WR. If not fleener I do like Allen who seemed to have dropped off many peoples boards
    SF has a full roster of WR's at this point not sure they plan on grabbing ANOTHER one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    I dn't think the Dolpins will touch Green and I don't see upside any greater than Clay's. Move TE or not, he still has to block people. And to say that it's a passing league - as Fin intimated - means nothing. It's a great term but teams still run the football and you still need to protect the passer. You become one dimensional when you bring in a specific move TE because you know he's not going to block a hoot therefore already the play is 50% easier to decipher than before.

    Aaron Hernandez was a run blocker on 406 plays last season for the Patriots. That's four hundred and six.

    Finley is an improving blocker year on year.

    Look at the top 12/15 TE's in the NFL. Beyond Aaron Hernandez who stayed in to block or run blocked 40% of the time he was on the field, there's not a move TE in the top 12/15. Seems a monumental waste of a pick for a team that needs WR's and TE's to waste a pick on a tweener. All well and good if it's Hernadez, a top 45 talent without the off field issues, but he's not.
    I'm not saying you don't need to block. I'm saying it's easy to learn if you have the right attitude and are taught to. As for the upside, I don't see Green as a guy with great potential, but I would say the same about Clay. It would be more about doubling up for me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcouch1021 View Post
    I think fleener could drop. Nines and giants people are thinking? I can see giants drafting LB, and miners drafting a WR. If not fleener I do like Allen who seemed to have dropped off many peoples boards
    I could see Fleener going as early as 19 to Chicago or dropping into the second. My feeling is that most, but not all teams should have him as the top TE (maybe 2/3). Most years you get no more than 1 TE in the first (usually late). I know that everybody thinks that with the year Gronkowski and Graham had that TEs will be in high demand, but I don't know that NFL decision makers change their views that quickly. Sure, they'll copycat the TE usage, but the ingrained belief is that you can get a good TE in the second and third or later. Those beliefs will only be changed slowly.


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    I think you could make the case that Fleener could be the most dangerous and versatile offensive player in the draft, not to many guys on the planet can do things that fast, that coordinated, at 6'6 250 lbs..I see his talent deserving to go top 20..

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    I think the Fleener bandwagon is running full steam and his draft position will move up accordingly, probably to more than he's actually worth. I think we could wait and see if Fleener is there in the 2nd, and that would be a good spot. Orson Charles and Dwayne Allen should both be 3rds, and both would have value there. I'd be fine going with Fasano and Clay and loading up on WR in the draft, it's a much deeper position than TE. Heck, Alshon Jeffrey is practically a TE as is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djphinfan View Post
    I think you could make the case that Fleener could be the most dangerous and versatile offensive player in the draft, not to many guys on the planet can do things that fast, that coordinated, at 6'6 250 lbs..I see his talent deserving to go top 20..
    Don't get me wrong. I think Fleener is worth the high pick, but I also was screaming for Miami to take Hernandez in the third (or second, if necessary) in his draft. I just find that attitudes in the NFL change slowly when it comes to position values. Parcells loved Graham, but wouldn't take him in the second for no other reason than he was a TE. I have no doubt that his isn't an isolated opinion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rafael View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I think Fleener is worth the high pick, but I also was screaming for Miami to take Hernandez in the third (or second, if necessary) in his draft. I just find that attitudes in the NFL change slowly when it comes to position values. Parcells loved Graham, but wouldn't take him in the second for no other reason than he was a TE. I have no doubt that his isn't an isolated opinion.
    His lack of production in college wasn't another factor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UCF FINatic View Post
    Jimmy Graham, Fred Davis, Jared Cook, Finley, Brent Celek isn't that great, neither is Dustin Keller.

    Finley couldn't block anyone coming out either... He was labeled a tweener like Green.

    If you don't think Green is on our board at all, who do you think we would draft TE wise? I am just curious...
    Jimmy Graham for one is a tight end whose blocking is much better than you're giving credit for. Terry Malone has done an outstanding job.

    Since when are we making cases for Fred Davis and Jared Cook? Celek similarly has become a much better blocker.

    Again, of the top 12 tight ends in the NFL, only one you could make a case for as an average blocker - Finley.

    I'm not discounting Green as a player. But as a player for Miami? Especially when Philbin has already talked of his excitement about using Clay as a TE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UCF FINatic View Post
    Jimmy Graham, Fred Davis, Jared Cook, Finley, Brent Celek isn't that great, neither is Dustin Keller.

    Finley couldn't block anyone coming out either... He was labeled a tweener like Green.

    If you don't think Green is on our board at all, who do you think we would draft TE wise? I am just curious...

    Sorry, I missed off your last question; Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen. Prototype do it all types. There's a lot of later guys I like with upside, kid at Washington, Josh Chichester,DC Jefferson, the Dunsmore kid, Brandon Barden, George Bryan etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafael View Post
    The attraction with Green is as a move TE. His size and speed give him the potential as seam threat. Arguably his ceiling is higher than Clay's. I like Clay, but I see him as far from a sure thing. Green would be a double up at the position with the hope that one hits. I also don't care much about the blocking. I see blocking for a TE to be mostly about attitude and teaching. If somebody is willing to learn you can teach most anybody to be a wall off blocker. So not seeing a TE block on tape would only bother me if he came off as unwilling to be coached in the interview or his coaches said he was unwilling. But that would take him off my board for more than just the blocking. So barring that, I would consider Green from the 4th round on.
    and Green also poses as a guy you can groom into being your future #1 to replace Fasano while Clay remains the #2. I don't have a problem using a 4th or possibly our second 3rd on any potential future #1 TE upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UCF FINatic View Post
    Thing with that is Fleener is going to be a 1st round pick and with Egnew I am just not really sold on.
    Fleener is not yet a complete TE, so I don't see him as a lock for the 1st round. If he were already a maintained 255 lbs and already an established blocker, then I'd say he never escapes the first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudder View Post
    I think the Fleener bandwagon is running full steam and his draft position will move up accordingly, probably to more than he's actually worth. I think we could wait and see if Fleener is there in the 2nd, and that would be a good spot. Orson Charles and Dwayne Allen should both be 3rds, and both would have value there. I'd be fine going with Fasano and Clay and loading up on WR in the draft, it's a much deeper position than TE. Heck, Alshon Jeffrey is practically a TE as is.
    .... just like the media & fan driven Mallett bandwagon had him moving up into the top half of the first round, potentially to Minnesota at #12? That's not a slight on Fleener fans b/c I'm one of them. Just saying- a media or fan driven bandwagon doesn't mean much come draft day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Jimmy Graham for one is a tight end whose blocking is much better than you're giving credit for. Terry Malone has done an outstanding job.

    Since when are we making cases for Fred Davis and Jared Cook? Celek similarly has become a much better blocker.

    Again, of the top 12 tight ends in the NFL, only one you could make a case for as an average blocker - Finley.


    I'm not discounting Green as a player. But as a player for Miami? Especially when Philbin has already talked of his excitement about using Clay as a TE.
    not to mention, the one who just set an NFL TE receiving record just so happens to be one of the better blocking TEs in the game, and even he escaped the 1st round.


    Then you look at the main reason Pettigrew is one of only two 1st round TEs selected the past 3 years---- "He's NFL ready and is like having an extra tackle on the field.". IIRC his size, completeness, and ability as a blocker is what secured his 1st round value despite concerns about his receiving ability at the NFL level (namely his ability to separate).

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