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Chris Weinke had similar surgery as Manning; Healed in 7 months & was Stronger

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by UCF FINatic, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8273e1f8/article/weinke-preaches-patience-in-mannings-road-to-recovery

    Great article. Glad to see Manning is ahead of schedule. Manning is just a guy you don't bet against. I am keeping my fingers crossed that he gets released in early March. This could also effect the asking price in order to trade up, since the Browns, Redskins, and Dolphins all need a QB. One of those teams should sign Matt Flynn, another should sign Manning, leaving only one team with the "need" to trade up to the Rams spot. :up:
     
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  2. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    While it is definitely nice that there is precedence for recovery, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

    1) Manning is 10 years older during the surgery - for those of you my age and older, you know you healed a lot better when you were a young-un.
    2) Manning has had the surgery multiple times now, indicating to me that the original problem was more severe
    - and to points #1 and 2, that combination makes the full recovery more remote, IMO.
    3) Weinke sucked, so how do we know the difference between him being fully recovered and still injured? :rimshot:
     
  3. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I'm sure our local board doctors will spend the better part of the day poo pooing this. Me, I don't know whether it's significant or not since I'm definitely not a doctor. But I do agree with you about not betting against Manning. Of all the QBs available or who might be available to us during this offseason, I have the hardest difficulty picturing Manning being unsuccessful.
     
  4. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Age is the big difference between the two but the fact that Manning has had to have several surgeries, although only the one was the actual fusion surgery...the others were cleanups and bone spurs, and procedures is just as alarming. Add in the prospect that he may have to have yet more procedures as part of the healing process and you've got a situation where, at 36 yrs old, how much nerve regeneration was lost during the fusion, how quickly can he regain all of the lost muscle tissue in the shoudler/arm and how LONG will the healing process take are the questions you have to be asking about Manning. Will he be the same as before ?? We don't really know that yet, but more importantly, when will we know how close to 2009 will he be is just as important a question...

    BTW...Darlington is about 3 weeks too late in bringing this story out...its been out there for several weeks now...
     
  5. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    BTW, if you want more info from one of our drs on this forum, search for kb21 posts. He's been very insightful...
     
  6. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Every actual medical doctor, not the guys posting on ThePHINS mind you, that has physically examined Manning has said that genetics does not play a role in his condition and it is not a progressive condition at this stage. They've also said that there is not structural damage to his neck anymore and all he has to do is regenerate nerves in his arm. Let's not speculate about things we're not qualified to touch on. At this point, the only thing that's hindering Manning is nerve regeneration.
     
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  7. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    what would genetics have to do with the discussion? and so far, most of the discussions have centered around nerve regeneration.

    and yes, it's not a progressive condition anymore. that's the whole point to get the bone fusions done in the first place. I've had bone fusions done in another part of my body for the same reason (preventing further damage). I remember specifically having the discussion with orthopedic surgeons who stated that the longer I waited to have my surgery (timeline of years) the more uphill the recovery might be. I had my first surgery when I was 22, and 3 follow up surgeries (one major + two cleanups) later, and I'm nowhere near 100%.

    one of the things that doesn't get brought up is whether Manning has full range of motion with his neck. Seems like most bone fusions would inherently start limiting your range of motion.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For anybody interested, Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star is coming up on 790 the Ticket w/ Sedano to discuss Manning

    www.790theticket.com
     
  9. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The talk about genetics is because Peyton's brother Cooper Manning had congenital cervical spinal stenosis, and because of that, there is reason to believe that Peyton's condition could be genetic as well.

    Honestly, I hate saying this about fellow physicians, but you cannot trust what the doctors who are directly involved in this case are saying publicly. For instance, take the comment when they say there is no structural damage in his neck at this time. Well, there may not be any structural damage, but there is definitely a loss of motion at the spot that was fused, which changes the spinal mechanics at that point. This in turn puts more pressure on the vertebra above and below the fused vertebra. Any doctor that tells you that the area is stronger than it was before surgery and that Peyton should have no problems down the road are not being truthful to you. I've seen it too often that people who have a single level vertebral fusion and recover quickly end up having the level above or below done within 3-5 years from the prevous surgery.

    I'm not directly involved in the case, so all I can tell you is what I've seen based on my admitted limited experience as a physician to this point. The people that I have seen in the past who have put off having his surgery for a pro longed period of time, which Peyton did because his symptoms started in 2006 and didn't have surgery till 2011, tend to have either a very prolonged recovery period or end up with chronic sequale from the impingement on the nerve.
     
  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't know one could say Manning is ahead of schedule? Hasn't he had 4-5 surgeries already?
     
  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Wow, it is great to know that Manning can recover and play like Weinke in the NFL. Now I have no doubt that the Dolphins should pass on Manning. Weinke was terrible as an NFL QB.
     
  12. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    The schedule keeps changing. He was supposed to play last season on the original schedule, but the nerve didn't regenerate. I believe he's now had a total of four surgeries, three to clear up what they believed to be causing the nerve damage and one to clear up bone spurs. After each of those three procedures he was supposed to be good in about a month, but in each case the nerve didn't regenerate. The last one was in September. Every successful case I've ever heard of had the patient back to work in about a month. When Montana had his procedure he was playing great on day 56. He actually could have played sooner but Young was playing great so Montana had lost the starting job. I don't know what the "new" schedule is, but if it's based on Weinke then you figure Manning might be ready by September.
     
  13. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    and therein is part of the problem. people are assuming (not you) that doctors know exactly how to fix the problem to get Manning back on the road to recovery. usually not the case. the fact that he's had multiple surgeries means they are taking educated guesses.
     
  14. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    That isn't the point is it?

    If Chris Weinke can recover to his previous ability is , not whether he ever was good enough to be an elite NFL QB is. Having a former NFL QB that has gone through this and is currently involved with a highly regarded Football Academy and has been training QB's such as Cam Newton voice his opinion and view should be taken with some respect imo.
     
  15. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    Makes far too much sense to be ignored imo.
     
  16. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I am one Dolphin fan who is totally against this scenario. First of all I am not convinced that Manning will ever be able to play another NFL football game and signing him is a huge risk, as far as I am concerned. Unless of course he is willing to sign a contract based entirely on his ability to play next season.

    Next I am not a big fan of Tannehill. He wasn't really very good at the college level and while he was the starting QB of Texas A&M, the team was very mediocre. He did nothing as the teams starting QB to improve the play of those around him. Unlike Luck, RG3, Weeden, and even Kellen Moore, who were able to improve the play of those around them by their excellent play at the QB position. I don't see Tannehill ever being more than a backup caliber QB in the NFL and to me it would be a total waste of a pick if the Dolphins take him in the first or second round.

    I am not real high on Weeden because of his age , or Kellen Moore because of his size and lack of arm strenght, but I still think they both will have better careers in the NFL than Tannehill. I would much rather see the Dolphins select Kellen Moore in the fourth or fifth round than waste a pick on Tannehill.
     
  17. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    we shall see Aqua. If you're gonna gamble on Manning, then it's pretty silly, IMO, to draft a QB with #8 pick. Manning is clearly and absolutely a short-term strategy to get to the superbowl. drafting a elite-starter with #8 increases your chances for success with your short-term strategy. you want to have your cake and eat it too. which would be great if we had two first round picks, but we don't

    our insurance policy for the short-term strategy is Matt Moore.
     
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  18. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Mannings top teams should be:

    1. Houston
    2. SF

    After that the other teams being talked about are ok. Sure great for a team like Miami or Seattle or Washington because Manning is so dang amazing just adding him makes you one of the SB favorites. these teams aren't ideal for him but it may be his only choice. I think Peyton is going to be back, and come back strong. I think he is going to have a good 4 years of elite play and could play 5-8 years total. that a career for another guy.

    I sign him and bring in a decent guy behind him but go in with full confidence that PEyton is my guy. If it doesnt work out then oh well. But don't bet against Peyton, there is no better or more valuable guy in the league. He makes a difference like nobody else and has a work ethic that is unparalleled. Do not bet against Peyton.
     
  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    ..and Weinke went on and lead a team to a Superbowl victory. ...oh wait.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I am against it, because I don't believe Manning will ever be healthy enough to be an effective NFL QB. He essentially has no timetable for return. He's not even back to full arm-strength, nevermind football strength. He hasn't played a football game in over one year, how long do we expect him to take to get back into football shape once his nerve regenerates (which is a wildcard itself).
     
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  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Theres not even a schedule! Nobody has said "Manning should be ready by X". Its essentially a matter of "lets keep our fingers crossed and hope something happens, but we don't know if it actually will happen".
     
  22. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    In the scenario of signing Manning, it is the best scenario. However, I think it is unlikely because Peyton isn't going to want to come to a team that already has his replacement planned out. One of the reasons he is running from Indy is their intent to draft his replacement. Peyton is going to want the team to draft players that can help now, because even though he is in denial, he is a short term guy.

    It's not the best case scenario that is out there. That would be signing Matt Flynn and using the draft to address the pass rush and pass protection. Matt Flynn isn't a short term gap stopper. He's a long term guy that is at the beginning of his peak years.

    The reason Manning/Tannehill isn't the best case scenario overall is the fact that you are passing on people who are probably better prospects at their position than Tannehill is at his at this point simply because you are putting in your contingency plan due to Manning's age/injury. You are passing on a Fletcher Cox, Dontari Poe, Luke Keuchly, or Quentin Coples to do this.
     
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  23. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    No offense but you should probably educate yourself on the situation. A few things:

    1. Lets begin by saying Peyton had this injury 2 years ago and played an entire year with it and played at an elite level. He could have played last year with the injury but got medical advice to go in another direction to regenerate the nerve.

    2.. The first procedure was not a typical procedure. It is an experimental procedure he went to Europe to see if it would work. Its a procedure not even performed in the US. The experimental procedure did not work, it happens. This procedure should have healed in 6-8 weeks and when it didn't after 16 they had to look in another direction. He would have had time but with the new CBA he couldnt get a new contract until later so he put off this surgery.

    3. Lets fast forward, we all know about the fusion surgery. By the way this is a somewhat routine surgery nowadays. The odds of him re-injuring the neck is as good as his brother, meaning his neck is fine.

    4. There is no schedule to return. That being said he was ready to come back at the end of the year. He was actually working with the team in practice to play in goaline situations. That means he was ready to play at the end of the year but the team wanted to protect the top pick so kept him out.


    All reports say he is throwing and looking good. Colts just need to cut the guy and move on. Its best for everyone involved. If they cut Peyton you will begin to see video and reports of him throwing well. Until then he is playing his cards correctly and staying private.
     
  24. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Asset management , if and it is IF Miami views Tannehill as an elite talent at QB there should be no hesitancy imo to draft him at 8 as well as sign Peyton if they feel he is healthy .

    Tannehill by all accounts is not ready to plug and play but could have a long and very succesful career . As I have mentioned before Miami may feel this is thier best opportunity to secure this quality of a QB , picking at number 8. Don't be short sighted , there are other ways to add pieces besides pick 8 to address need areas.

    Say Miami has no strong conviction on any available QB at 8 , then by no means should they reach , but putting Tannehill in the bank so to speak , to use when you need him down the road is just astute management. Make the best use of your assets .

    I mentioned in another thread that the team would need to want Peyton and Peyton want the team , and imo Miami and Manning is the strongest pairing as I see it. Peyton will be wiiling to structure a friendly deal , not for "no" money of course but he won't hold a team hostage to extract a ransom . Having a first round QB in the wings that needs time isn't like having Luck , where tension could develop , media and fan pressure and criticism would be an instant away at every occurence.

    If Miami grades Tannehill high enough , using pick 8 on him while also signing Manning because they view him as a true opportunity to win a Super Bowl is hard to be against , at least for me.
     
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  25. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    ... and Weinke was a previous Super Bowl winning QB , multiple league MVP and first ballot HOF'er. .... oh wait .
     
  26. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    If Miami got Manning you do not draft Tannehill. Draft a guy in the 3rd-4th to back up Peyton and develop. I actually think Moore could be this guy and you could use that mid round another player.

    - Sign Peyton
    - sign Garcon
    - use 1st round pick to get BPA not QB. This is probably a pass protector or pass rusher. But build around Peyton, not plan for his demise in 4 years.
     
  27. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    How many years does Manning have left in the tank realistically? 2-3 years?

    Perfect scenario to bring in a guy the FO is high on to get ready. I'd take Wilson despite his height if I were in charge. Forget Tannehill, he has much more upside as a WR than a QB in the league IMO. Bring on the hate for this take


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  28. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    KB , Tannehill doesn't equate to Luck though , in many ways . Very , very different scenario with Luck and Peyton , or Tannehill and Peyton.
     
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  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    He was never ready to come back. He's not even ready now. He has no nerve in his arm.
     
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  30. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Of course this is all predicated on Manning being helathy and recovering , but say he does , there is no reason to think he can't play more than 2 years. He could easily play another 4 years if he wants barring any unrelated injury.
     
  31. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Sure he is throwing, has been since December but doesn't have NFL arm velocity.
    They are two different things you know.
    Also just because he was cleared by doctors for his neck doesn't mean he was ready to play because he wasn't.
    Once again two different things. :wink2:
     
  32. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    At this point, he has 0 years left in the tank until his nerve regenerates. Once that happens you can re-evaluate his health.
     
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  33. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I cannot say how much I agree with this post. It is exactly what I am thinking. Manning is not ready at this point and may not ever be again. Flynn fits in nearly every way. We need to use our draft picks on positions we need help with.
     
  34. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Not taking Tannehill at 8 just because he is a QB would be a mistake if you grade him as the best player available and view the selection as the best long term decision. That is what this franchise used to do , that should stop imo.

    Asset management , Miami may never get an opportunity to select a QB in the draft they rate as highly as Tannehill
    again , or for less than huge ransom , you have take that into account and make the best long term decision for the franchise.
     
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  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Last we heard about his nerve was that it has not regenerated. I believe that was during the week pre-Super Bowl. I would assume that once the nerve has regenerated the news will be made widely available. But saying he looks better and is improving doesn't entail the nerve regenerating.
     
  36. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Eli said the day after the SB that Peyton still lacked velocity on the ball.
     
  37. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The only difference is the level of the prospect. Outside of that, there is no difference. Either way, Peyton Manning is going to want the team to use a pick on a player that will help him win NOW, not help the team win 5 years from now. I think it is very unlikely that he is going to be on board with using a first round pick on a quarterback, and to be honest, I doubt he wants to see the team use a pick in the first 3-4 rounds on a quarterback. Peyton is going to be in win now mode.
     
  38. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Thats certainly to be expected.

    Even if the nerve regenerates, there is still the issue of muscular atrophy that he's suffered. Now unlike the nerve regeneration, that is something you can work on and you can put a timetable on. But the nerve regenerating is the big issue here.
     
  39. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just some more info:

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...timetable-still-hinges-on-one-critical-factor


     
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  40. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Here's the thing with that. Let's say you sign him next week when he gets cut, but he's clearly not ready to go. Now, because you have signed him, you are basically putting in a lot of hope that the nerve regenerates. Considering that it is very unlikely that he is going to be on board with using a first round pick on a quarterback, you pass on taking that quarterback. Now you are looking a situation where you have an injured Manning and a Matt Moore that you have publicly stated isn't good enough. There is still no long term fix at the position.

    Or, let's say you wait it out with the intent on signing Peyton when/if he's healthy. Now, because you are waiting on Peyton's health, you pass on Matt Flynn. You also pass on the quarterback in the first round, because now you are drafting to convince Peyton to sign with you, knowing full well that if you draft a quarterback in round one that Peyton probably will not sign.

    So, this hope that Peyton will get close to his form if we wait it out is going to cost Miami two chances to get a potential long term fix at the position.
     
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