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What if... It really was all about the QB position after all?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bumrush, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    I've been doing a bit of thinking today and wanted to discuss a fairly controversial subject, one that is sure to spark a great of debate here..

    What if Sparano's failure is directly linked to QB play, or lack thereof? I am not one to assign full blame, but if our previous QB made a few cluth throws down the stretch, this team could have had a winning record (up to 10-6) last year and could have been in the hunt this year if he made a 10 yard completion against Houston with the game on the line.

    For those of you that know me, you will know that I was an ardent Henne supporter, with the exception of a stretch last year when I posted in Club when the Dolphins were 5-4 and struggling.. I basically made the contention that while I loved Henne, it was time for Sparano to make a change and insert Pennington, because we needed a veteran leader on the field that could control the offense and put us in position to win down the stretch. I guess it was my way of realizing that Henne didn't have good command of the huddle and that his decision making / process was poor - especially as games winded down. I refused to truly admit that because during some stretches I saw a QB with All-Pro potential, far greater than anything we have seen since Marino was here..

    With the sudden playmaking ability of Moore, and our offense looking pretty damn good with Reggie Freaking Bush as our primary tailback, could this downward spiral be placed on the shoulders of our QB situation? When Sparano had a high level of QB play this team shocked the world. Now that Moore is playing at an efficient level, we are suddenly blowing teams out and look just as good as any other team in this division outside of the Patriots.

    If this trend continues, do we CONSIDER keeping Sparano around? How many other coaches would have motivated their team at 0-7 with the fanbase calling for your head and celebrating the fact you put your house up for sale? Not many.
     
    Aqua4Ever04, 2socks and MonstBlitz like this.
  2. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    Tony did quite well that 11 win season with Pennington... then we switched to "Can't score" Henne at QB for 3-4 years, and we struggled.

    With Cowher/Gruden staying in their booths, and Harbaugh already with the niners, I don't see why fans don't at least consider the possibility of keeping Sparano, depending on how this season plays out.

    It has negatives and positives. Positive... we don't have to go through another 3-5 year rebuilding process for a new coach to get "his" guys....

    negatives.. I'm sure dolphin fans will bring all of them up :lol:
     
    Steve-Mo likes this.
  3. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    It's a very worthy discussion. I think the success of an NFL team in more cases than not hinges more on QB play than it does having a great coach. I think it's a very short list of teams whose success is based more on coaching than QB play -

    Patriots - Belichick
    Eagles - Andy Reid (not very successful this year, but still in the hunt and he's succeeded with just about every QB he's thrown behind center
    49ers - Jim Harbaugh (very short body of work to judge from but Harbaugh is winning with Alex Smith where no other coach could)

    There are others you could debate. Mike Tomlin did very well in those first few games without the rapist last year. And John Fox is winning with Tim freakin Tebow. But could Tony Sparano win with a good to great QB behind center? I think so. But is it worth chancing if he doesn't get this team a winning record or at least .500 this year? I don't think so.
     
  4. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    The only positive I see in this franchise is that the owner will turn in the draft card for the qb in the 1st round if he must.

    Tony Sparano got himself a contract extension. He got his son a job. He didn't get a quarterback. Therefore Tony Sparano went into his final year with the Dolphins married to the success or failure of Chad Henne. Its the same Chad Henne that Dan Henning told you (through his selection of offense) could not win.

    He's fired.
     
  5. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    I think it's a combination of things. The offense has been very efficient the last 3 weeks, but the defense hasn't allowed a TD the last 3 weeks. So I don't think it's as easy as Moore coming in for Henne, because there were stretches with Moore that were worse than Henne's ever been. I think your overall point is a good one though, in that a franchise QB masks a lot of deficiencies, especially those of the Head Coach.
     
  6. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Is the defense inspired by the fact that our offense is actually scoring TD's instead of making it difficult to win? No coincidence that this same D, which was looking really SOFT this year, was knocking helmets off Bills yesterday, getting 15 yard roughing penalties and making plays on the ball... Hmmmmm.....

    Put yourself in the D's position.. Against the Browns they have a solid all around day but once again we don't score enough points to win.. They finally give up a long TD drive (with several key contributors missing the game) and the focus goes to the D collapsing when the O couldn't put up points. Same thing against Houston when they played well but folded late, only to see Henne miss 4 passes in a row when we needed 10 yards for FG range).
     
  7. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I never thought Henne was great or a franchise guy, but he was far from our biggest problem. What matters is that your QB fit the system he's in. If you have that then you could win as long as the rest of the team is playing decently. The rest of our team was not playing well and Henning couldn't adapt his system for Henne. This year Henne played well in the preseason and in the first three games. His protection was horrid, the TEs weren't involved in the pass game, the running game was useless and the defense was an albatross, but his play was good, actually better than what Moore has done these last three games. But as everything else has gotten better suddenly the the production goes up and fans attribute it all to the QB. Now having said all that, a franchise QB can make almost all the difference. Neither Henne or Moore are franchise QBs. If the rest of our team starts playing poorly again then we'll lose like we did the first three games Henne started and the next four that Moore started.
     
    Tone_E likes this.
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Any coach is going to look better when they have a great QB.

    Jim Caldwell was in the SB a few years ago with Manning, now he's going to go 0-16. So which is he? He's probably closer to the guy who can't get a win than a SB coach, but the QB made all the difference
     
  9. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    well said Raf
     
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  10. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I think it's more than that. The defense is playing significantly better. One of the reasons, IMO, is that V Davis is finally healthy and playing up to expectations (hopefully it lasts more than one game). If he can keep playing well, it makes our secondary so much better and allows our front 7 to do what they do best.

    The biggest difference between the first 7 and last 3, IMO, is our execution in the redzone. part of that was definitely on Chad Henne. part of it was on playcalling by the coaches. another thing you can't ignore, our coaching philosophy was much more conservative when the season began and we were playing not to lose. after you go 0-7, well you have nothing to lose, so the playcalling becomes more aggressive. My problem with Sparano - we should have been that aggressive from the start. He preached it in the preseason and didn't live up to it.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think a lot of it is on the QB position. Good QBs can make bad coaches look mediocre. Look at San Diego as an example. That's probably what would have happened here in Miami if, let's say, Chad Pennington never got hurt and continued to play like he did in 2008.

    But since that's not what happened, we're going to get a new coach, and that's fine. It's not a bad thing. I think Sparano often had trouble seeing what was right in front of his face. He certainly had some issues managing games. He never truly lost the locker room and that's commendable, but it's also about the best I can say for him. And now apparently he's garnered a league-wide popularity among NFL players that rivals the popularity of George W. at an Occupy rally.

    What happened, happened. Moving forward it would be nice to get a good quarterback. I love Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley and Brandon Weeden. I like Ryan Tannehill and I'm still trying to figure out Landry Jones. If we stick with one of those and get a good coach, we'll be fine.

    The only thing that concerns me is the thought of overkill. Let me give you an example. The #2 Tight End position was a huge buzz word around and among the fans. Everyone wanted them to do something about it, like sign Zach Miller to a big money contract, or draft guys real high in the Draft. Until a few games ago, Dwayne Allen at the top of the 2nd round was the most recent example. Except...all it took was a wisely-spent 6th rounder, a coaching staff that finally took its head out of its arse and stopped playing him as a straight up fullback, and a quarterback that can distribute the ball to his play makers...and suddenly we're all giddy about Charles Clay. That's it. That's why I kept saying don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito. The problem with the #2 Tight End position had been their TOTAL lack of investment in it. You don't need to overkill it in reaction.

    Overkill as it would apply to other areas would be to grab a premium quarterback, and also force the Head Coach job onto an offensive minded guy mostly because he's offensive minded. I don't think Bill Cowher wants the Miami job but if he did, the fact that he's unpopular around here because he's a guy that likes to play good defense and run the ball baffles me. He's not opposed to having a good QB and a good passing offense. He's employed some of the more talented and creative offensive coaches in the game today. And you look at a guy like Chuck Pagano, he's sort of brought up around here in connection with the Head Coach job, but it's ALWAYS as an also-ran. The guy everyone wants is always an offensive guy, be it Jon Gruden, Jay Gruden, Rob Chudzinski or Pete Carmichael.

    There's been some success of offensive minded Head Coaches coupled with a great Quarterback. Obviously Sean Payton won a Super Bowl with Drew Brees and they continue to be good every year. Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers seem unstoppable. I can see the allure of that.

    But there's also been a lot of success having a great quarterback that can always keep the passing game successful to some degree, married with a Head Coach that can make sure that the defense is always sound. Bill Belichick and Tom Brady are the quintessential example of that. Bill Cowher and Ben Roethlisberger made an awfully good team for three years. Peyton Manning finally won one with Tony Dungy. Imagine the teams the Jets would have had the last three years if Mark Sanchez was actually any good?
     
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  12. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I want to preface this by saying I agree with the substance of your post, CK, but…

    I think you're understating it. Bumrush as well. Everything runs through the quarterback. Having a great QB establishes a baseline for your team. Look at the Saints; their worst season with Drew Brees was 7-9. That's been Sparano's BEST season with Chad Henne. (Actually, it's been his only season with Chad Henne, really.)

    A good quarterback makes a bad coach look good, or at least doesn't make him look bad. Peyton Manning/Jim Caldwell comes to mind.

    I disagree with this, but mainly because I think they did address the #2 TE position right away, and they did so via the cannon approach. His name is Anthony Fasano, a guy who primarily excels as a blocker and occasionally catches whatever's thrown his way. That's a classic #2 TE, IMO. A contemporary #1 TE looks more like, coincidentally enough, Jason Witten. I'd also say a guy like Jacob Tamme can qualify as a #1 TE, and in fact I wouldn't mind acquiring him via trade if we were to talk to the Colts about that #1 overall pick.

    Bill Belichick's defenses have been awful since 2006. The Patriots earlier this season were on pace to give up the highest defensive passer rating in franchise history. I admit I stopped tracking, so I don't know if that's still true. The point here is that citing Belichick/Brady as a combination of a great QB paired with a coach who can keep the defense at a baseline of performance is a bad example.
     
  13. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Of course it is ALL ABOUT the quarterback. You have a good one, you are relevant.

    If the Dolphins had Aaron Rodgers and didn't handcuff him, they would be super bowl contenders.

    Just look at what happened to Indy.

    it is a ONE MAN league.
     
  14. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You have some valid points , the 3 wins came against teams that are , lets be kind , playing AWFUL . The defense has played very well , we have had turnovers , big plays and key players have stepped up. This doesn't change , imo , that Sparano isn't the coach to bring this team to a Super Bowl. Hopefully the better play doesn't mask the need for change.
     

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