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Primitive Alien Life May Exist, Stephen Hawking Says

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by Celtkin, Apr 22, 2008.

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  1. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352068,00.html
     
  2. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I love that last line.Its so condescending :lol:
     
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  3. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    When I was a kid I thought Stephen Hawking was a robot.
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    with some places where life is on earth I would be surprised if there isn't
     
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  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    There IS life other than us in the universe, its not really a debate. The only way there is not is if there is a deity or something of that kind that is limiting life to earth only.

    The universe is so incredibly massive we really cant even wrap our brains around it. There are billions of planets in our one galaxy, trillions and trillions and trillions overall. The odds that not 1 has even an amoeba or something crawling around? 0.
    Now is there intelligent life? Thats the only question. Frankly, we wont know the answer until we either find it, or somehow understand how we gained a human conciousness and self awareness.
     
  6. Dolphan7

    Dolphan7 Member

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    The question has been and probably will be for some time.......are we significant? or are we insignificant?

    If we are significant then we would expect that the earth is in just the right place at the right time - just the right distance from the sun to not freeze or melt everything on the planet. The axis tilted just at the right angle. The laws of nature we see being just right - like gravity. The right elements in place to sustain life. Significant as in made specially just for life - our life.

    If we are insignificant, like many philosophers and scientists/researchers say we are, then we would expect to find other accidents of life on other planets in other solar systems just like ours. The thought being that if it happened here, it could happen anywhere.

    The facts are....we have no evidence of any life outside our own stratosphere.

    Hawking might be a great mind, but he is reaching here.
     
  7. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Being in the right place at the right time does not make a species "significant" my friend. Lucky maybe, but not significant.

    I would venture to guess that there is life elsewhere in the universe but, if that is the case, does that make us insignificant? I don't believe it does.

    Hawkings is a smart guy and he is smart enough to know that we have not really looked for life outside of our planet in any meaningful way so he is not reaching IMO.

    Much of what we do is based on assumptions. I saw an interesting analogy where a scientist sought to prove that lobsters exist on earth so. He personally had never seen one one in the wild so he tried to recreate a scenerio in which he had indeed seen lobsters in the past.

    He set a table with drawn butter, candles and a nice salad and opened his door to wait for a lobster to show up. Of course, none did so he made an assumption based on that one test that there were no lobsters on earth.

    Thats kind of what we have done so far except that scientist have not concluded that there are no "lobsters" but rather that we are not using the right tools, looking in the wrong places or are making the wrong assumptions.
     
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  8. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    :lol: Interesting analogy for sure.

    It's not impossible that there's life outside this world. After all, it already happened.
     
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  9. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    It's entirely unfair to assume that since we haven't found other life after exploring less that 1% of space that it must not exist anywhere else.

    That's like sticking your toe into the exact spot the ocean meets the shore and assuming there can't be fish.
     
  10. Dolphan7

    Dolphan7 Member

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    Yes yes yes there is always hope that one day, when we have done more research and spent oodles of money that there will be some discovery of life elsewhere in the universe. Until that time, if it ever does happen, earth is unique and alone in the universe....which brings us back to the question......are we significant or are we insignificant? Is earth a special place or just a lucky chance happening based on all the right things happening at just the right time against all the odds and statistics?

    You decide.
     
  11. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We are all ants in an ant farm for some giant alien creature's amusement.
     
  12. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If earth is unique we must be significant.
    If earth is not unique we must be insignificant.
    If we are unique there must be a reason for that to be bestowed upon us therefore there must be some purpose. If we are not unique and there are billions of intelligent creature out there then they probably want to put a superhighway through this planet (hitchhikers guide.)
     
  13. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    I go back to the answer I already gave and ask: What does being alone or with others in the universe have to do with being significant? If you have more than one child, does that diminish the significance of the first?
     
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  14. Dolphan7

    Dolphan7 Member

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    If there is other intelligent life out there then that is one thing, and the cause of that intelligent life could be random chance as is being proposed as the reason we are on earth, or it could be that there is a designer/creator who creates life on other planets in other galaxies, or other universes for that matter. But....

    If life on earth is unique and special only to earth, then that could lead to the thought that there is a purpose and intent in our existance..........or......

    One could cling to the thought that earth is a blip in the cosmic history, a random event, a chance happening....and that when earth finally dies either by it's inhabitants or just old age, then there is nothing again.

    Kind of a morbid thought actually....first there is nothing, then there is life on earth, then there is nothing again.

    So far we have no evidence that life exists outside our stratosphere, although there is much hope that life will one day be found in the universe. So as of now - we are alone, and unique, and special or if you don't want to believe that....the luckiest planet in the universe.
     
  15. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box


    ok, ok. my turn. life on Earth is unique and special regardless if there is life anywhere else. you will find no other species as ours here because of our circumstances...regardless of design. it is possible to be unique and special and not alone. it is true that it is unknown weather there is other life, intelligent or not, in the universe, but the odds are in favor that there is. Creator or happenstance.
     
  16. Dolphan7

    Dolphan7 Member

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    Intersting point. Why are the odds in favor of life elsewhere? On what do you base that on?
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    With the amount of life on this planet in areas where I just still find it hard that it exists. In the deepest caves where the light is nill to the bottom of the oceans near the volcanoes. It would not surprise me if we found at least bacteria on every planet with an atmosphere, including Venus, which it does seem impossible at this time
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Probability. Have you seen the size of the universe? Have you looked at the dark matter web that we are apart of?
     
  19. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Oh, Mal...when will you learn that the earth is only 7000 years old, and that man once coexisted with the dinosaurs?

    For like...20 minutes, during the 1969 world series. But still.

    (the jews killed them off)

    :sidelol: Classic Hawking.
     
  20. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Based on what we can "see" now - which is an obscured view because of the rest of the Milky Way (until the new James Webb Space Telescope launches in 2010) - there are 100 BILLION GALAXIES in the universe. When the Webb telescope is up and running it is estimated that number could double.

    Given 100 billion galaxies alone, and with the quadrillion-to-septillion stars in all of those galaxies, and with the <Graham's Number> planets orbiting those stars in all those galaxies - what do you think the chances are that we are alone as intelligent beings in the universe?

    Put it this way: do you know anyone who has ever won the big money prize in a lottery. Me neither. Well, maybe you do; but if so, you're in vey minuscule minority.

    Given that each lottery winner must have some friends, say, 10 each - that's still pretty rare.

    Then think of how many people are lottery winners - grand prize winners....about a dozen or so a month.

    That's because the odds of winning the grand prize in a lottery are anywhere between 1-in-14-million to 1-in-120-million.

    ONE...IN...ONE-HUNDRED-TWENTY...MILLION.

    Yet about a dozen people win one or another of them every month.

    The odds are one in one billion-decillion-decillions that we are alone as intelligent beings in the universe - let alone the only life.

    Ummm...yeah.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
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  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I was watching something on the biggest things in the universe and they showed the Galactic Web. My first thought was, "What if there is mroe than one galactic webs?" Then head exploded.
     
  22. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Because the Universe is pretty damn big, you think we're all alone here in little corner of the universe?

    Oh and according to the Joenamathgotluckyandifyoudontlikeitthancankissmyyouknowwhattheorem(Patent pending)
    Intelligent life forms cannot be called intelligent life forms if they root for the Jets.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
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  23. Dolphan7

    Dolphan7 Member

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    Considering the chance that life from non-life happened on this planet is somehwere between 1 chance in 10 to the 40,000th to 1 chance in 10 to the 2 billionth.........and this doesn't include the statisitcal odds of that life becomming intelligent life....


    wouldn't the odds be much less likely that this could happen ....twice......?

    People can believe what they want.

    I believe earth is unique and special....and alone. Right now science confirms this.
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    science does not confirm it. That is like saying 20 years ago science confirms there are not black holes. Heck it would be like saying 3 years ago that sciece confirms that there is no dark matter or 10 years ago(maybe more) that Nuptune has slower winds than Jupiter.

    Even with odds being less likely it could happen twice, the odds are VERY GOOD that it has happened multiple times. The universe is insanely big.
     
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  25. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    on the shear fact that the universe is so large. does that mean that the universe is littered with life forms? who knows. we may well be the one and only habitable planet, but the immense size of the universe would likely prove otherwise.

    does it scare you to think that you might not be alone in the universe and there fore no longer as special or unique as you believed? take comfort that it is highly unlikely that, unless they come to us, we will not know the answer to that question in our lifetime.
     
  26. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    Probably not. I personally believe you would see life at various stages, probably more primitive. The probability however, IMO that they would exist to our stage I do believe is low.......
     
  27. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    regardless, the Earth will always be unique and special, even if not alone. and science only confirms that from where we are we can not confirm other life forms on other planets. it does not confirm that there is no other life forms. that would take probably 100's of thousands of years of space exploration to confirm or deny that.
     
  28. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    my post was based on the posibility that some life form exists somewhere in the universe.
     
  29. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    How did you calculate those odds?

    Urey and Miller created amino acids and nucleic acids in one experiment, using only the gases in the ancient atomosphere and an electrical discharge to simulate lightning. Agreed? Also, nucleic acids have been shown to spontaneously assemble in ancient clay. And since we can trace evolution back to an RNA world, most likely viral, (RNA -> DNA), can you accept that "life" can spring spontaneously from a single RNA strand?
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Indeed, Hawking is speculating of course, but it would not be unreasonable to postulate that there is "life" somewhere in Cosmos.

    And that is even Biblical....::up:
     
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  31. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Well just look at Viruses, they pretty much are just genetic material and protein.
    But whether they are truly alive is a debate for another day.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  32. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    I don't believe viruses are alive and I don't believe that you will find many microbiologists, molecular biologists or virologists who will disagree based on the current definition of "life" BUT viruses are largely responsible many cross over events and genetic transfer (see the significance?) . In addition, there is new and compelling evidence that there may even been gene transfers between viruses.

    By the same token, apes and dolphins are not sentient because they don't pass the human-centric definition of sentience which requires that a being have a language (higher primates and dolphins do), use tools (higher primates and dolphins do) and use fire (why the heck would bottle nose dolphin need fire?)
     
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  33. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    don't they think now that elephants may use tools as well?
     
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  34. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Yes but we (humans) make the definition and we weed out the ones that don't use fire. IMO, when we find a tribe of chimps who make fire, we will change the standard to include the building of airports.
     
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  35. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    or bars. :hi5:
     
  36. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    :woot:
     
  37. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    If the standard is build airports well, or have them run efficiently, we'd need a new definition or we'd be excluding ourselves...

    As to the thread, I dont understand why having other life in the universe makes us less unique? There can be other forms of life, somewhere, and it not suddenly make earth insignificant. However, the idea that we arent special doesnt really pose a problem for me.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
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  38. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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  39. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    My question is why do you feel the need to be unique? Anyone? If there is other life out there (which I believe there is) we should welcome it. Being but a small part of the universe is a great thing.
     
  40. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    why welcome it? that Idea I really don't understand............
     
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