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You are rebuilding the Miami Dolphins...Who is safe?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CANEPHINS, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    I can only think of a handful of guys....

    Offense:
    Long (No brainer)
    Pouncey (Give the kid his shot)
    Thomas (Wasn't a fan of this pick, but he has looked good when on the field)
    Gates (got to have his speed and I think he will only get better)
    Fasano (Sure he fumbles at times, but he is also tough as they get and can make the catch....still need another TE though)
    Clay (Haven't seen enough to say whether he stays or goes. At this point I am unsure, so he stays for further evaluation)

    Defense
    Wake (no brainer)
    Dansby (when on game is amazing. Think he is caught in the funk right now that this team is in)
    Davis (Has shown he can be a shut down corner, but still needs to improve tackling)
    Taylor (He decides when he is done and he has shown he can still go and he is a leader who wants to win)

    Special Teams
    Fields (MVP of the team)

    IMO....everyone else can go.

    That is it....everyone else can go. How many other teams can say off their roster they would only keep 11 players? Really? REALLY!
     
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  2. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    Obviously Long. The Phins wasted a top pick on a tackle.
     
  3. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Top LT is the cornerstone of your team. He is the first line of defense in protecting the QB. The most important piece of the puzzle on offense. Can never fault taking him, especially with his production level. He will be first ballot HoF at this pace.

    That being said, you do have to take the franchise QB when you have the shot. Ryan is good, but he is far from great at this point. Production value, him and Long are a wash for what they provide at their respective positions...but Long might even have the advantage.

    Now, we have a massive problem on the right side of the line that negates anything good Long is doing.
     
  4. SCPhinFan

    SCPhinFan Junior Member

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    Giving you a realistic list, although some on this list are under performing this year.

    Offense - Long, Pouncey, Fasano, Marshall, Bess, Hartline, Gates, D.Thomas

    Defense - Starks, Langford, Odrick, Dansby, Wake, V.Davis, Jimmy Wilson (yes, Jimmy is a keeper)

    ST - Feilds, the long snapper, Carpenter (although he better get his shinz together)

    Obviously many others will stay for depth but the above list is what I would start to build around.
     
  5. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's who I think is safe:

    On Offense...
    Long
    Pouncey
    Thomas
    Bess (he's consistent)
    Gates (we need his speed)
    Hartline (the guy does make some nice plays)
    Fasano (I like him as a blocker, Id still want to find a receiving TE option)
    Henne (everyone needs a backup that has starting experience. Bring in a new, REAL QB to compete (not matt moore) and go from there. Only problem with that, Henne is a FA after this year I think, so he's gone anyways Id say. Id at least keep him for a backup though if possible, which I doubt it is)


    Defense:
    Odrick
    Soliai
    Starks
    Langford
    Dansby
    Davis
    Smith (possibly)
    Wilson (it looks like theres good potential there)

    ST:
    Fields

    On the bubble:
    Marshall (We'll never see the ROI we should on him for what we gave up, but if there's the potential to move him and get some picks to help I'd explore it. I'd like to keep him, but if we need some picks and the right deal came along, I'd strongly consider it)
    Wake (Same as Marshall, if the right deal comes along with picks, I'd move him. I'd hate to, he's our only pass rusher on the team that can get any pressure, but again, if its a sweet enough deal, I'd at least consider it.)

    Im sure there's more I'd keep, I'd have to look over the roster, but I'm at work so I was looking at this quickly. I'm not saying we go out and blow it all up and trade everyone away, but like I said, with Marshall and Wake, if the deal is right, I'd have to consider it.
     
  6. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I say no one's job is "safe." Anyone can be cut. And, if there is trade value, all offers will/would be considered. Blow the whole damn thing up...again! :pity:
     
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  7. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Was listening to the Chargers broadcast on XM during the first half. They said Carp had missed 11 out of his last 26. He was roughly a 58% kicker over that span coming into the game yesterday. Tell me another kicker in the league that is worth keeping kicking at a 58% clip?

    Carp is a HUGE part of the problem right now. Since Sparano lives by the 3, we have lost 2 games this year (that we could have won) had Carp not sh** the bed. He has to go.
     
  8. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    I struggled with Hartline. He is gritty and does make some big plays. However, he has had some crucial fumbles and drops that have either lost games are killed drives.

    No way Smith is a keeper. Zero playmaking ability, is regularly out of position, misses tackles, and just cares about getting his hair did.
     
  9. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Yeah, but sadly you have to keep some around. Would be nice to be able to cut bait like that though.
     
  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Koa Misi belongs on the list. He's a good run defender, and he's being kept off the field in passing situations by guys who probably not better rushers than him.
     
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  11. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The biggest problem with the secondary right now is the lack of ball skills. There has been too much emphasis on physical play by the scouting department and not enough emphasis on being able to make a play on the ball. Right now, the only guy that I have seen who has done a good job of finding the ball and trying to make a play on it is Jimmy Wilson, and Sean Smith knocked an interception away from him in the game yesterday.
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and when he got up it looked like he blamed Jimmy.
     
  13. dgb11112

    dgb11112 Hall Of Fame

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    Jake Long and the Waterboy should be safe. I guess the owner since he and the passel of actors and singers own the team. ...
     
  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Despite all that, Smith is still better than a lot of starting NFL CBs.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It all depends on the new coaches system.

    The only player who I think is absolutely safe, if he comes back from injury is Jake Long.
     
  16. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    No one. Every player should end up on the trade block, and whoever you're left with that no one will even give you a 6th for—take the hint.

    Long? Turn him into two 1s, or at least a 1 and a 2; draft a LT and a RT to bookend your new O-Line. Two players for one.

    Everyone else? Get what you can, evaluate what you have, keep the Kendall Langfords and Tony McDaniels, give the rest back to the ether.

    This is what I've advocated every time we've had a rebuild, and it never happens, and we go limping along from administration to administration, dragging along the Channing Crowders and players with current value but whose careers will not last long enough to see the fruits of the effort. If we had traded everyone of value after Wannstedt, the team would have been rich with draft picks for the next few seasons.

    Clean house; a team full of players who have gone 7-9, 7-9, and now 0-4 is a very bad team...take what you can out of your investment and use it to move into the future.
     
  17. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    I would strongly consider trading Cameron Wake for a draft pick or picks. He still has a very attractive and relatively inexpensive deal, but he's going to be 30 by the time the season is over and I'd rather see us part with someone a little early instead of a little late. Look at the Patriots for a model; they traded Richard Seymour two years ago. Seymour has still been very good in Oakland but New England maximized their value for him rather than letting him hang on.

    We need to be aggressive in maximizing all future resources for this offseason.
     
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  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I would never say anybody is safe, beyond a young franchise QB and maybe an elite young LT. Everybody else would potentially be used to fill the most important position so I wouldn't use the word "safe". But I do think this team has some very good building blocks that I would like to keep.

    Offense
    OL: Long, Pouncey
    RB: Thomas
    WR:Marshall, Bess, Hartline, Gates

    I'd also prefer to keep Fasano and Henne depending on cost, but those are positions where the starters need to be upgraded.

    Defense
    DL: Solia, Starks, Odrick, Langford
    LB: Wake, Dansby
    DB: Smith, Davis and Wilson

    I'd also keep Will Allen around, but at his age I couldn't call him a building block.

    I think all of the players above would be starters and/or contributors on good teams. There is some talent on this team, but they're missing key elements and they haven't been used well enough. On offense, they need a receiving TE and a better complement to Thomas. Fasano simply doesn't get enough separation or use his body well enough as a receiver. Bush hasn't been dynamic enough in space. I'm not sure if it's on him or if it's on the coaches. I still would have preferred Sproles. They also need to get more athletic on the OL. On defense the keys are play makers at S and a better pass rush. They made a mistake passing on Thomas to fill less important positions.
     
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  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It never happens because it's not something that happens outside of Madden. What you are advocating is as guaranteed a way to make the team less talented as anything.

    Trading quality, young players for draft picks is a bad idea. The league-wide success rate on being positive, meaningful contributors as starters or top backups is well below 50%. Conuficus got it somewhere in the low 30's on average I believe. You're taking your successes, the players you got from that +/- 30% success rate, then you're trading them for picks, which will then be subject to the same general success rate. +/- 30% of 30% of a number is what? You're not making quality decision age-wise, either. This team isn't full of 30+ year old players.

    It's also logistically ridiculous. You're taking dead cap hits for trading these players early in their contracts. I'm sure a 3rd or 4th round pick isn't a big deal, but Jake Long? Surely someone would want to trade for him, but if you get rid of multiple 1st round contracts, you're also bombing your salary cap badly.
     
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  20. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Vontae Davis is the one guy in the secondary who is a good tackler. I don't understand why he needs to work on his tackling. I think he's already great at it.
     
  21. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Only ones I would think would be absolutely safe...

    Long, Pouncey, Odrick, Langford, Davis, Fields.

    Of course, others get weaned out over a couple year period since that would leave 48 roster spots open.
     
  22. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Exactly. We're going to be a very good reclamation project for some coach. Our record doesn't reflect talent as much as effort and coaching.
     
  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Fans tend to panic and equate bad results with bad talent. I don't think that's the case with this team. They do need more talent at some key positions, but that's not the same as lacking talent everywhere.
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The secondary, nor the OL aren't any worse than those units on many teams that make the playoffs.
     
  25. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Varience happened. When you're a conservative, play not to lose, every game's a nailbiter team, then you're going to encounter Mr. Variance sooner or later. In 2008, we hit a lucky stretch, winning a lot of very close games against a weak schedule, in 2009 and 2010 it pretty much evened out (could have been a 10 win, could have been a 4 win team, settled at 7 wins) and in 2011, nothing much is going our way.
     
  26. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    young core, thats bout it, henne as backup. trade some vets for picks. noone should be safe or feel safe.
     
  27. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Once a new head coach and GM take over, it will take about three years to rebuild the Dolphins. So it isn't so much who you want to keep for next year. It is more about who is on the team right now that you want to build a team around over the next three to four years.
    On offense the only players I see still being on the Dolphins in three years are Long and Pouncey. Thomas may also be a player who can be part of the building block of the team but he has to show that he can stay healthy. He missed the first game of the season with an injury and missed the fourth game with another injury. It doesn't matter how good you are if you can't stay on the field. Gates has speed but as of today, he hasn't shown that he can make plays with all that speed. He has to show more productivity if he expects to make it with a new regime taking over. I like Bess and Hartline today, but three years from now, it wouldn't surprise me if they have been replaced by a new set of receivers. The rest of the offensive players, including Marshall all need to be replaced as quickly as possible. Marshall is just taking up far to much of the salary cap to justify his position on the team.

    On defense, the only player I see here in three years is Davis. In three years Wake will be 32 and Dansby will be 33. The new GM should try to trade both these players while he can get something of value for them. While they may be productive for another year or two, by the time the Dolphins are ready to contend for the playoffs, they will have already seen their best seasons come and go. The DL is not nearly as good as many people thought it would be and I don't see any of the defensive linemen now starting still being on the Dolphins in three years. This includes Odrick, who I think is going to end up as a first round bust.

    So while I suspect that several of the players now on the Dolphins will remain with the team next year, since it is impossible to completely revamp a roster in one year. I think that by 2014, 90% of the players on the roster today will either be playing for another team or will no longer be in the NFL.
     
  28. Wulf

    Wulf New Member

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    The talent on the roster is by no means as weak as the talent on the coaching staff! Replacing the #30 OC with the #31 and expecting better results was insane! Making the WR coach the new QB coach, and having a rookie WR coach to replace him made about as much sense as retaining the OL coach who has failed in three seasons in Miami... That said, I would suggest that barring some serious trade offers, we will keep the majority of the roster until such time as we find better. You don't remove pieces from a machine until you have the new parts!
     
  29. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    24th.
     
  30. Oghma

    Oghma Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You have to keep a bunch of the players, since it's not possible to replace everyone in one shot.

    Who's truly safe? I would say Long, Davis, Marshall.

    There are quite a few other good players, but none I'd consider totally safe.
     
  31. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Who is he better than? You have him your top 3rd, middle 3rd or bottom 3rd? Saying he is "better than a lot" would mean you have him ranked pretty high.
     
  32. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Offense:

    Long
    Pouncey
    Bess
    Marshall
    Gates
    D. Thomas
    Hartline---performance based on the rest of the season
    Bush---performance based on the rest of the season

    Defense

    Vontae Davis
    Sean Smith---performance based on the rest of the season
    Dansby---performance based on the rest of the season
    Cam Wake
    Solai---performance based on the rest of the season
    Odrick
    Langford---performance based on the rest of the season
    Starks
    Koa Misi---performance based on the rest of the season

    ST

    Carpenter---performance based on the rest of the season
    Fields
    Denney

    Camp Invites

    Marlon Moore
    Jimmy Wilson
    Will Allen
    Nate Garner
     
  33. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    our talent level is not a bad as some make it out to be ....

    our #1 problem is coaching -- tell me why players don't make our roster, find themselves on another -- and contribute no less. our problem is coaching. a coaches JOB is to put players in a position to make plays ... of course players have to execute to make the play, but none-the-less. our coaches do NOT do a good job of either getting players in the right position (called coaching) or developing a scheme that suits our players skill sets (game planning).

    FO made some bad calls ... particularly this year and decided to keep some veterans with the hopes of winning -- now we've lost some good developing talent to other teams. So many people just love them some JT ... but the dude just should not be here.
     
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  34. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Everyone who is safe.

    Pictured below
    [​IMG]
     
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  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know if it's so much a matter of who is safe, as it is who needs to go.

    This team definitely needs to revamp the offensive line (again). Vernon Carey and Marc Colombo need to be gone. Richie Incognito probably needs to go just because even though he's good at what he's good at, the range of things he's good at is very limited. It's a daunting task ahead of us, as far as revamping this unit goes. Nate Garner I think should be kept. This staff may not be using him properly but I trust a new staff to figure that out. The new staff has to figure out what kind of running attack it wants, get players that FIT it, and then coach it well. I know, novel concepts.

    The team needs to revamp its quarterbacks unit. Chad Henne is a free agent and I'd probably let him walk. You need to pick up a veteran that will back up the rookie we get next year, or even start over him at first, if necessary (depending on how the Luck thing shakes out).

    Honestly if you need to trade Brandon Marshall in order to be assured of a great QB prospect, that's fine, but otherwise I wouldn't touch the WRs unit. I thought it was fine and I still think it's fine. Brandon Marshall is the kind of guy that will fight for your team if there's something to believe in, or completely die off if there isn't. It's no coincidence he was balls to the wall against the Patriots and Texans but has fizzled against the Browns and Chargers. The entire locker room is flat right now. If you'd like to move on from him, I don't blame you. But I'm not doing that just for its own sake. I want something in return.

    The tight ends unit needs a good smack, but not necessarily a cannon shot. The problem has been the complete, mind blowing lack of any attention being paid there whatsoever. You don't need to whore yourself out for the top most talented Tight End on the market so that you all the sudden feel pressure to have your 2-TE personnel be your base personnel. Someone needs to decide if Charles Clay is a fullback or an H-Back. I think he's probably the latter and you know what he did have a pretty impressive play he made this weekend, so we'll see on that. But in the mean time you need to add about 3 new and TALENTED bodies to the tight end roster to bring to camp in 2012, and let that shake out however it shakes out. Use Jim Harbaugh's philosophy on Tight Ends. They either need to be great blockers or great pass catchers or both, try not to get guys that are mediocre at both.

    And I want a fullback. I don't think you can run a good cutback ground game in the NFL without a true fullback. I think it was short sighted of Brian Daboll, Tony Sparano and Jeff Ireland to head into this season without Lou Polite or another real fullback. If replacing Lou Polite was your aim, then fine...but Charles Clay is not that replacement and I think we all could guess that.

    Daniel Thomas is a nice piece to the puzzle, but he's only one piece, and a pretty unproven one at that. I like his physicality, it's better than I hoped it would be to this point in his career. The rest of the RBs unit needs some work, though. Reggie Bush needs to go. I've said it from the start, all he is, is a headache and a tease. You sit there and spend incredible amounts of time and resources figuring out "the right way" to use him...when the reality is the guy has a very limited, specialized skill set, that is NOT that rare, and is very hard to figure out how to use in some sustainable way. The SAINTS couldn't even figure that sh-t out, with Drew Brees and Pete Carmichael and Sean Payton and that wide open offense...how the eff were WE supposed to figure that out with Chad Henne and our brain trust? Players with that skill set get passed up all the time, because they don't have a name. Fortunately for him, his name is the best thing he has going for him, because his name causes defenses to do things in order to defend him that open up other players. But that's all he has going for him. He's got to go. There's no way he should be making $5 million a year. Bye bye, Reggie.

    The defense is much more difficult...because you don't know the scheme we'll be running next year.

    But we shouldn't be beholden to the 3-4. I look at guys like Karlos Dansby and Kevin Burnett...and I see a Sam and a Will. We need to find a Mike. I've been wanting an elite Mike for years, as have most of the people that tend to hate on Channing Crowder, even though I'm actually a Crowder supporter. Crowder is not necessarily a sideline to sideline guy...but if he wants to come back next year while we groom or look for a Mike...I'm all for it. Koa Misi is just going to have to earn his way back on the field, but he's a good option to have that you can put out there and help make your team multiple.

    Cam Wake is what he is, I think...a Defensive End. It's just sh-tty that he's never been groomed to play over left tackle at any point. I know he's more comfortable over right tackle but that's what teaching/training is for. You can make him a bandit, and he can flip sides and every now and then stand up. After watching him these first four games, I know it's early, but I'm starting to be convinced that Jared Odrick is a Defensive Tackle by trade. This might be a round peg in a square hole, trying to make him a 3-4 DE, now that I'm getting an extended view of him. Randy Starks is a valuable member of the defense and should start over Odrick with Odrick fighting for playing time. Kendall Langford might be the odd guy out, surprisingly...as I don't think he's an ideal bull for the defense I'd have in mind. Paul Soliai...I just don't know anymore. I think he could play the defense I'd have in mind.

    The secondary just needs to be revamped in the safeties unit. I actually am not as down on the corners as everyone is. Vontae Davis has been out hurt. Sean Smith is not bad. Jimmy Wilson looks like a nice addition. Will Allen has continued to play solid for us, as he has his whole career (when healthy). The b-tch boy seems to be Nolan Carroll right now, but neither he nor the rest of the corners are getting much help from the safeties. Jimmy Wilson is physical. Vontae Davis is physical. Will Allen is physical. I've always taken a stance against moving Sean Smith to safety, but that was because people wanted to put him there as a rookie or a second year guy. He was too new to defense, he needed to develop his defensive instincts first before you count on him to move to a position where your defensive instincts are so much more important. I always said, maybe in a few years. Well, it's been a few years. After this year, he'll have three years in the NFL under his belt, including being a part timer as a dime safety for two of them. By 2012, it might be time. And I wouldn't be surprised if he starts making plays on the ball as a safety. What the Dolphins need is a dynamic strong safety to replace Yeremiah Bell, another corner that will eventually play opposite Vontae, and some valid safety backups.
     

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