1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

VD21 vrs SS24...Who you got?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Jun 19, 2011.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I've been seeing a lotta love for Mr Smith around these parts, especially from some esteemed members...I like that, and I 'll tell you why..Cause I love me some VD, and if some folks that I respect, think Smith is the better player with more upside, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside because of the respect I have for VD21's game.

    So head to head, just for fun, lets compare the two, ''whilst'' we gloat about possibly having one of the best corner tandems in the game..

    I will say this, when Smith came in mid season, our defense went to another level, if he had his sh$# together and we didn't have to roll with Jason Allen for 8 games, I believe we would of had a better record, however, I'am still not comfortable with him covering the crossing routes, his short area quickness worries me sometimes, and I often see him in that trailing position because of it, but, this is what is to be expected when you are the biggest corner in the game, and that aspect, has its perks..Upside?, where do ya''ll see that upside?, and is this the reason why some have him as becoming the better corner? Do you think he can become better than Bobby Taylor?, and has anyone ever been 6'3 at the position?, I'am not sure..But does this kid really have a chance to be special with that size?

    Personally, I think overall Vontae Davis is the better corner, I don't care about stats at the position, I care about explosive movements, agility, and how instinctively you play the run, and with what kind of nature you do so. Vontae is an incredibly explosive, fast twitch football player, so tightly wound in his musculature, he literally is a dangerous player on the field. One of the most talented plays you will ever see, is the play against minnesota, when the ball got tipped at the goalline, the man contorted his body in ways that I can't explain, it showed incredible athletic ability and concentration to make that play, and he did..Thats the thing about VD21, when the ball comes his way, I see playmaking ability in this 23 year old, and when I combine that with youth, and mirroring skills like a bird following a flock, I come out with VD being the better corner?

    But I would love to hear why you disagree?...Like I said to Alen1 before, whom I believe disagrees with me, ''Its a win win for all of us'' that we can disagree on this topic..
     
    MrClean and GMJohnson like this.
  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    52,652
    25,565
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    21. Next question?
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  3. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,683
    44,622
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    To quote Deion Sanders, "Both". I think Sean Smith's a better cover guy now, and Vontae's better in run support. I think over time Vontae Davis will be a special player though.
     
  4. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

    12,587
    1,574
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Washington DC
    I wish Sean Smith had some Elmer's last year... dude dropped a ton of picks!!!
     
  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,634
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Sean Smith, and it isn't really even an argument. Vontae Davis has shown good upside, but it wasn't as impressive, nor was it as sustained as Smith had at the end of the season. Smith looks like he has broken out, Davis hasn't yet.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    6 in one game..

    I think I create anxiety within myself just talking about his anxiety when the ball is in the air...I don't want to believe it, but I know it's true.

    His hands during ball flight our similar to lebron james hands at the end of games...Timid, shaky, and uncoordinated.
     
  7. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    I thought it was a discussion of STDs.
     
  8. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

    4,154
    1,218
    0
    Aug 22, 2010
    At this point, I have to give an edge to Smith. He worked his *** off to put on 10 pounds of muscle last off season. He also struggled to pick up Nolan's D. He overcame and learned how to tackle, while it appeared VD was reading too many of his media reports.

    Now, I believe there is a competition there, and the only winners will be the Phins and their Phans.
     
    Disnardo and padre31 like this.
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Now I like this kind of party.. A Heavyweight who has Smith better than my guy, with conviction no less..lol.

    Your definition of broken out?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    He had to learn how to tackle, was late to pick up the scheme, is a year older that VD, can't catch a cold, but yet he's better?..In what ways is he better SB?
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Thing with V is he missed more tackles then one would think, he was one of the "Worst" in the NFL in the MT department.
     
  12. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    I like Sean Smith better, personally. I feel that Vontae Davis has the potential to be an elite cornerback, but he has not taken that step yet. Vontae was rather poor in run support in 2010, missing a lot of tackles. It's something we criticize Smith heavily for, but seem to ignore Davis' miscues. We can scrutinize Smith's lack of interceptions in 2010, but I would rather he prevent the receiver from making the catch than focus primarily on the big play. Jason Allen made some nice picks in 2010, but we seen him get burnt more than enough times to make us have flashbacks of Reggie Howard. I think in 2011, Smith will turn those dropped picks into turnovers.

    Right now Smith is the better cornerback of the two. I think both have the potential to be very special players and could eventually form the best cornerback tandems in the NFL.
     
  13. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,683
    44,622
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I've seen him miss quite a few when he's tackling a receiver in open field, but I still stand by his run support is pretty good.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    I think sometimes he tries to go for the big hit to often, he can lay the wood though.
     
  15. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

    25,809
    39,060
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    Berlin,Germany
    the missed tackles will be corrected imo, he is just to violent a hitter to miss that many, when he figures out when he needs to wrap up and when he can deliver the blow it will be all good and man can he deliver a boom or what
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  16. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

    298
    91
    0
    Apr 8, 2010
    I'm going with Sean Smith, I think Vontae is overrated.
     
  17. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

    9,545
    5,217
    113
    Dec 4, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Yup. And the drop issue will work itself out.
     
  18. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I like Vontae because he seems absolutely dedicated, has made more plays, and is better overall. Smith has the ability to be a great cover guy and he flashed last year though he needs to catch those picks. I'm the kind of guy who likes complete players and complete teams more than I like teams that are great at one thing but deficient in others so I have to go with VD21. I think he can be top 10 in coverage and top 5 in run support while I see Smith being able to be top 5 in coverage (yeah, that good) but only top 15 in run support. It all depends on what you value the most.

    Regardless, this is a great debate to be having.
     
    smahtaz, MrClean and djphinfan like this.
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I can't believe all the folks who think Smith is better..This is good news..

    You know i've been having this debate since they both entered, and up until today, I thought my projection of Vontae being the better player was correct..Looks like i'am gettin outnumbered here, lol..

    Let me pose this question to you Grid's..One game against Andre Johnson? who you gonna put on the best? man up?
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Pretty good Ronin.?, I think this miss tackled thing is gettin a bit overblown, Padre?, you got some stats on missed tackles?..
     
  21. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,683
    44,622
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    By pretty good I mean Vontae's pretty good. He's not Ronde Barber in his prime good in run support. He does miss some every now and then, but from what I remember more of his missed tackles come downfield against receivers. I was at the Packers game last year and I can think of 2 or 3 blatant misses Vontae had. And that's with experiencing everything tailgaiting outside Lambeau Field has to offer.
     
  22. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    If it were up to me, I would put Smith on him. While I do think Davis is more prone to creating turnovers on Johnson, I believe Smith would be able to cover him more effectively. Smith has an extra 3-4 inches that will help tremendously on a guy like Johnson.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Davis and believe he will take the next step in his game. But right now, Smith is the better cornerback.
     
  23. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Not sure what you were looking at D. It was Vontae who received the toughest assignments week in and week out, and it was Sean who was receiving the most safety help week in and week it out. Clearly, the coaches were putting more responsibility on VD's shoulders. I agree the Sean played well down the stretch, while Vontae seemed to suffer some of the mental lapses that plagued him in college, but to say that either guy is hands down better than the other is a littly loony IMO.
     
    MrClean and djphinfan like this.
  24. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Fixed that for ya.
     
  25. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Agreed. Way to much ankle grabbing last year.
     
  26. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Sean Smith is 6'3" but he doesnt play like it. I can live w/ the junior varsity tackling skills, but I want to see him become more physical at the LOS w/ WRs. More jamming, more redirecting, and then get into the trail technique and force QBS to make perfect throws over his frame.

    I think the dropped INTs come from pure surprise that the ball is in his hands. When he has time to track the ball, Sean has tremendous ball skills. The pick vs Nawlins in the 09 preseason is evidence of this. But when the ball is coming at a low trajectory or is on him quickly, he never makes the play. Hopefully he'll get better w/ more experience, but I think we're seeing why the Utah coaches moved him to defense in the first place lol.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    ''He's playing like a great corner should''.

    Tom brady disagrees with you.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    agreed, I still see him shy away from contact, but he did improve from really bad to almost decent.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  29. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Davis straight up. SS is too soft to take on Andre. You saw what he did to Finnegan. I think part of Vontae looking worse than Smith is the fact that he was covering number 1 receivers like Moss and Jennings while Smith covered number 2's and TE's.
     
    MrClean and djphinfan like this.
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I agree here Dpate, whats the reason for such a big discrepency in your analysis.?
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I've seen him mistime jumps as well GM..He's all jacked up in the head at this point..
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
  33. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Yeah you're right. He went from like an F to a C-, though I'm still waiting for him to at least try to wrap someone up.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  34. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Yeah the one vs Cotchery in the Jets game, that coulda been INT # 4 for the game IIRC. Yeremiah shoulda had the sack, Sean shoulda had the pick, instead it was nearly a TD for NY. Sean had one go right through him vs Buffalo for a TD to Stevie Johnson. Had an EASY pick 6 vs Baltimore. Potential pick 6 vs NYJ. Coulda ended the Green Bay game if he held on to the lob from Rodgers. I mean, going back to 2009, Sean has caught 1 out of a possible 10-15 INT's. I dunno if thats awesome or turrible. Probably both.
     
  35. godolphins

    godolphins New Member

    298
    91
    0
    Apr 8, 2010
    Vontae is not a great corner and what was Brady suppose to say? "He's playing like an average corner should"
     
  36. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Language is beautiful. There's a subtle yet distinct difference between he played great, and he played how a great player should.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Hmm, how about this:

    SS stays at Cb
    V moves to FS
    Will Allen takes over Nickel duties
    Nolan Carrol plays boundary corner
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Ok, if you say so buddy..

    For the rest of us who don't have a clue, check this out..There is this play against the bears that he almost pulled off that would of been ridiculous..

    It was third down, bears at our 6 yard line, cutler throws a perfect lob pass in the right corner of the endzone..Vontae plays it beautifully,times his jump perfectly, elevates way above his combine vertical, snags the ball at its highest point, with one hand, starts to bring it in beautifully and just loses it at the end...It would been six easy cause of how perfect the pass was, if he tries to go up with 2 hands its 6, but he didn't, he broke up the touchdown, and walked off grinnin like a mother grabber..

    Vontae Davis has great ability, Talent that only a few men can claim, as soon as this game stats to really slow for him, it will be him and revis in the probowl.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,655
    67,548
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Thats a cockamamee idea Pod, lol... I just hope for will allen to be healthy to take over that nickel, that spot gave up so many big plays last year, that position between sapp, carroll, harris was a sieve. and probabaly had everything to do with us giving up an 85 QBR for the opponents passer rating..

    Lets just keep our young bad *** tandem together on the boundries..and let Clemons and Jones develope.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  40. Straz

    Straz Me and my girl :)

    1,862
    297
    83
    Mar 23, 2008
    Vontea Davis
     

Share This Page