Will the Pittsburgh Pirates make the playoffs this year?

[Ray Finkle]

Not saying he is the next coming of the Babe, He has a little over 2 years in the bigs, hey sometimes it takes time to develop certain aspects IDK, Granderson couldnt hit LHP even worse than Jones, now what is he doing? I believe he is the best now.....all I am saying is I like his swing, doesnt mean he is good, bad, or will be in the HOF...I am surprised he isnt better, because it isnt a overly flawed swing....

Granderson changed his stance and moved his hand lower so he could get his hand quicker to the ball, give him a lot of credit that change has turned him into a possible platoon candidate into a star.

As for Jones, I'm sorry but I just don't see it. There's just way too much evidence pointing in the other direction from your views. He never hit for much power in the minors either and that's more than just a small sample is over 4000 appearances. His ceiling is just a average player with average power.

[TheAnswer385]

Jeff Karstens absolutely sucks my firend, I had the "luxary" of watching him, when he was on NY....listen I am rooting for the Pirates, I truely am, but if and when that do make the playoffs, the flaws are magnified 10-fold.....

Karstens would get his tits absolutely light up by Boston's lineup.....we are talking 5IP-100+ pitches min.....

He did pitch against them and went 6 2/3 innings and gave up 3 runs with a no decision. Also Pirates won that game. That my friend is what they call a quality start. Toronto is a top AL scoring team and he shut them down as well, so check your scheit.

[CashInFist]

Honestly the only pitcher I really like on their roster is Hanrahan. Everyone else is pretty average/ordinary and I'm the biggest Charlie Morton fan in the world but he's really just a back end starter and the team is full of them no matter what their stat lines may say.

Honestly, it is obvious you have never watched even one Pirates game this season...

[Ray Finkle]

He did pitch against them and went 6 2/3 innings and gave up 3 runs with a no decision. Also Pirates won that game. That my friend is what they call a quality start. Toronto is a top AL scoring team and he shut them down as well, so check your scheit.

Anything can happen in one game though, it's way too small of a sample to really judge someone with good or bad results.

Honestly, it is obvious you have never watched even one Pirates game this season...

What's obvious is you're a Pirate homer, which is fine, but you need to be a little realistic about your team. Case in point you claimed a few posts ago than the Pirates have the best pitching in the MLB and that's just laughable or that the team has pitching depth, really where or who?

Look Pittsburgh finally has a decent team so there's no reason not to get excited about them (I stated numerous times I'm rooting for them) but you really need to be realistic about the team, specificially the talent level. Because the results and the level of talent aren't matching, which is fine it's baseball and sometimes bad players have good years and sometimes good players have bad years, ditto with good teams having bad years and bad teams having good years. They have a bunch of mid-level at best starters on that team if that and besides Andrew McCutchen, who's a superstar, their line up is spotty. And I'm sorry if I don't love their bullpen outside of Joel Hanrahan, but Daniel McCutchen or Jose Veras don't excite me. Again it's great that on July 21st they're in first place and playing well and I'm not saying that they won't be in the race until the very end or even possibly make the playoffs (simply because the NL especially the Central is weak) but come on be realistic.

Again I'm not saying not to be excited for the team but don't turn them into something they're not. But it's obvious you disagree with me, which is fine so let's just sit back and see how the rest of the season plays out.

[finyank13]

Granderson changed his stance and moved his hand lower so he could get his hand quicker to the ball, give him a lot of credit that change has turned him into a possible platoon candidate into a star.

As for Jones, I'm sorry but I just don't see it. There's just way too much evidence pointing in the other direction from your views. He never hit for much power in the minors either and that's more than just a small sample is over 4000 appearances. His ceiling is just a average player with average power.

you missing the point Fink, I again like him because of one certain thing, it doesnt mean I think he is this great player, or will be....you are looking from strictly stats....I am like that, I like and dislike players because certain qualities.....

now when it comes to my team, I am all about the stats.....

[finyank13]

He did pitch against them and went 6 2/3 innings and gave up 3 runs with a no decision. Also Pirates won that game. That my friend is what they call a quality start. Toronto is a top AL scoring team and he shut them down as well, so check your scheit.

Karstens=Ian Kennedy........everybody gets lucky, come to Fenway and do it, in the World Series which is an impossibility....

Anything can happen in one game though, it's way too small of a sample to really judge someone with good or bad results.



What's obvious is you're a Pirate homer, which is fine, but you need to be a little realistic about your team. Case in point you claimed a few posts ago than the Pirates have the best pitching in the MLB and that's just laughable or that the team has pitching depth, really where or who?

Look Pittsburgh finally has a decent team so there's no reason not to get excited about them (I stated numerous times I'm rooting for them) but you really need to be realistic about the team, specificially the talent level. Because the results and the level of talent aren't matching, which is fine it's baseball and sometimes bad players have good years and sometimes good players have bad years, ditto with good teams having bad years and bad teams having good years. They have a bunch of mid-level at best starters on that team if that and besides Andrew McCutchen, who's a superstar, their line up is spotty. And I'm sorry if I don't love their bullpen outside of Joel Hanrahan, but Daniel McCutchen or Jose Veras don't excite me. Again it's great that on July 21st they're in first place and playing well and I'm not saying that they won't be in the race until the very end or even possibly make the playoffs (simply because the NL especially the Central is weak) but come on be realistic.

Again I'm not saying not to be excited for the team but don't turn them into something they're not. But it's obvious you disagree with me, which is fine so let's just sit back and see how the rest of the season plays out.

Lets put the Pirates in perspective, if they played in the AL East they wouldnt have that record first off, but even if they did, they would be tied for 3rd place, and sitting 8 games out.....sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwww your roll bro....

[Ray Finkle]

Lets put the Pirates in perspective, if they played in the AL East they wouldnt have that record first off, but even if they did, they would be in tied for 3rd place, and sitting 8 games out.....sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwww your roll bro....

If the Pirates were in the AL East they wouldn't be close to having the record that they have now, again the NL especially the NL Central is weak. That starting pitching would get hammered since none of the Pirates pitchers can miss bats with their stuff.

[finyank13]

If the Pirates were in the AL East they wouldn't be close to having the record that they have now, again the NL especially the NL Central is weak. That starting pitching would get hammered since none of the Pirates pitchers can miss bats with their stuff.

This is usually problematic for MLB pitchers I would think.....

[Ray Finkle]

This is usually problematic for MLB pitchers I would think.....

Oh it's a big problem if pitchers can't miss bats because hitters put the ball in play therefore it's out of the pitcher's control what happens next. If the pitcher has a crappy defense than most of those balls put in play will find holes and guys will get on base. That's why real MLB #1/#2 starters more strike hitters out.

So just look at Pittsburgh's rotation, the only SPer with a decent K rate is James McDonald and even he's putting on way too many hitters on base (along with the rest of the staff). That's why I think there's going to be a regression with guys like Karstens because his underlying stats aren't matching his nice and shiny ERA. It appears that they're is getting lucky with smoke and mirrors. I mean Charlie Morton was doing the same thing earlier this year and he's starting to feel it now.

That's why I'm saying to be realistic but also to just sit back and enjoy the ride for as long as you can because it could end quickly.

[finyank13]

Oh it's a big problem if pitchers can't miss bats because hitters put the ball in play therefore it's out of the pitcher's control what happens next. If the pitcher has a crappy defense than most of those balls put in play will find holes and guys will get on base. That's why real MLB #1/#2 starters more strike hitters out.

So just look at Pittsburgh's rotation, the only SPer with a decent K rate is James McDonald and even he's putting on way too many hitters on base (along with the rest of the staff). That's why I think there's going to be a regression with guys like Karstens because his underlying stats aren't matching his nice and shiny ERA. It appears that they're is getting lucky with smoke and mirrors. I mean Charlie Morton was doing the same thing earlier this year and he's starting to feel it now.

That's why I'm saying to be realistic but also to just sit back and enjoy the ride for as long as you can because it could end quickly.

Yes call it the Kevin Millwood Theory of pitching......

Although I will say that division is wide wide open, that thing is coming down to the wire IMO Fink, for them to be out of it, they have to basically blow up....I believe it will be the most exciting race in baseball heading into the final stretch....

[Ray Finkle]

Yes call it the Kevin Millwood Theory of pitching......

Although I will say that division is wide wide open, that thing is coming down to the wire IMO Fink, for them to be out of it, they have to basically blow up....I believe it will be the most exciting race in baseball heading into the final stretch....

Oh I think the Pirates will be in the race all year simply because that division is so bad. Based strictly on talent, Pittsburgh would probably be 4 in the division because I think overall the Cardinals, Reds and Brewers are better teams but those 3 teams have issues themselves.

[muscle979]

If the Pirates were in the AL East they wouldn't be close to having the record that they have now, again the NL especially the NL Central is weak. That starting pitching would get hammered since none of the Pirates pitchers can miss bats with their stuff.

The AL central is also weak. Does that mean the AL is weak?

[Ray Finkle]

The AL central is also weak. Does that mean the AL is weak?

I don't disagree that the AL Central is weak too but the AL is far superior to the NL and has been for almost over a decade now.

And before we get into a AL vs. NL debate (if someone does want to get into that debate) let's just not waste anytime by using the silly who won the All Star Game as an argument or who won the WS in a given year. The only fair way to judge is by using interleague stats since its a much larger sample with more data to go on and not to mention all 30 teams will be in the discussion.

[finyank13]

I don't disagree that the AL Central is weak too but the AL is far superior to the NL and has been for almost over a decade now.

And before we get into a AL vs. NL debate (if someone does want to get into that debate) let's just not waste anytime by using the silly who won the All Star Game as an argument or who won the WS in a given year. The only fair way to judge is by using interleague stats since its a much larger sample with more data to go on and not to mention all 30 teams will be in the discussion.

What was the record this year?

[Ray Finkle]

What was the record this year?

I did a quick Google search AL beat the NL 131 to 121 and outscored them 1074 to 993. I couldn't find other stats quick enough but I'm almost positive the AL beat the NL in other major stat like HRs, Ks, ERA, WHIP etc. The AL hasn't lost an interleague series since 2004. And all time the AL is 11 and 4 against the NL since it started in 1997.

[muscle979]

I don't disagree that the AL Central is weak too but the AL is far superior to the NL and has been for almost over a decade now.

And before we get into a AL vs. NL debate (if someone does want to get into that debate) let's just not waste anytime by using the silly who won the All Star Game as an argument or who won the WS in a given year. The only fair way to judge is by using interleague stats since its a much larger sample with more data to go on and not to mention all 30 teams will be in the discussion.

Far superior? That's a ridiculous statement. If you had just said 'better' I wouldn't even bother arguing with you but far superior is ridiculous. The bottom end of the NL is worse than the bottom end of the AL, I agree, so what? You're talking about a ten game difference in 252 games. That is not that significant. It's time to accept that the NL is catching up. Looking at the All-star game and world series results are silly but using games from 1997 isn't? I know they don't hit as well as the AL but their pitching is certainly better. I would take the pitching staffs of Philly, Atlanta, and SF and put them up against any three AL teams' staffs.

[Ray Finkle]

Far superior? That's a ridiculous statement. If you had just said 'better' I wouldn't even bother arguing with you but far superior is ridiculous. The bottom end of the NL is worse than the bottom end of the AL, I agree, so what? You're talking about a ten game difference in 252 games. That is not that significant. It's time to accept that the NL is catching up. Looking at the All-star game and world series results are silly but using games from 1997 isn't? I know they don't hit as well as the AL but their pitching is certainly better. I would take the pitching staffs of Philly, Atlanta, and SF and put them up against any three AL teams' staffs.

I was asked what the record was in interleague play this year and I gave it and then decided to give the total all time results for the hell of it since my original statement was the AL has been far superior to the NL and has been for almost over a decade now.

Sure the NL pitching is better, that's because they get to face weaker line ups with pitchers hitting and not DHs so of course the NL pitchers would be better. Plus there are more pitcher friendly parks in the NL too.

And yes I definitely agree that Philly, SF and Atlanta probably have the best pitching staffs in baseball but we're not talking about the top 3 teams in each league facing each other, we're talking about the leagues head to head. That's why we're not including All Star game victories or WS winners in this discussion because it doesn't represent the two leagues as a whole. So it's kind of a pointless counter argument for this discussion.

I really never understand why people who root for a team that's in the NL takes some much offense when people say the AL is better. I mean who cares. You're a Braves fan, they're probably the 2nd best team in the NL and maybe the 4th or 5th best team in baseball, who cares if the NL stinks in general. If anything wouldn't you want that since it would increase your teams chances of getting into the playoffs?

[finyank13]

I was asked what the record was in interleague play this year and I gave it and then decided to give the total all time results for the hell of it since my original statement was the AL has been far superior to the NL and has been for almost over a decade now.

Sure the NL pitching is better, that's because they get to face weaker line ups with pitchers hitting and not DHs so of course the NL pitchers would be better. Plus there are more pitcher friendly parks in the NL too.

And yes I definitely agree that Philly, SF and Atlanta probably have the best pitching staffs in baseball but we're not talking about the top 3 teams in each league facing each other, we're talking about the leagues head to head. That's why we're not including All Star game victories or WS winners in this discussion because it doesn't represent the two leagues as a whole. So it's kind of a pointless counter argument for this discussion.

I really never understand why people who root for a team that's in the NL takes some much offense when people say the AL is better. I mean who cares. You're a Braves fan, they're probably the 2nd best team in the NL and maybe the 4th or 5th best team in baseball, who cares if the NL stinks in general. If anything wouldn't you want that since it would increase your teams chances of getting into the playoffs?

Personally I like the meat grinder of the AL, over the easier path....if you spend the whole year grinding, you are in better shape, than a team that has coasted pretty much.....nothing phases you at that point.....Why do you think the Big East in college basketball, does well in the tourny, necause they grind it out everynight....

[muscle979]

I was asked what the record was in interleague play this year and I gave it and then decided to give the total all time results for the hell of it since my original statement was the AL has been far superior to the NL and has been for almost over a decade now.

Sure the NL pitching is better, that's because they get to face weaker line ups with pitchers hitting and not DHs so of course the NL pitchers would be better. Plus there are more pitcher friendly parks in the NL too.

And yes I definitely agree that Philly, SF and Atlanta probably have the best pitching staffs in baseball but we're not talking about the top 3 teams in each league facing each other, we're talking about the leagues head to head. That's why we're not including All Star game victories or WS winners in this discussion because it doesn't represent the two leagues as a whole. So it's kind of a pointless counter argument for this discussion.

I really never understand why people who root for a team that's in the NL takes some much offense when people say the AL is better. I mean who cares. You're a Braves fan, they're probably the 2nd best team in the NL and maybe the 4th or 5th best team in baseball, who cares if the NL stinks in general. If anything wouldn't you want that since it would increase your teams chances of getting into the playoffs?

I don't care that much, I just don't agree. I don't agree that it's a 'far superior' league. They're different styles of baseball. As much as you can say I'm taking offense b/c my favorite team is in the NL I can say you're trying to inflate the AL b/c your favorite team plays there.

And no I don't want the Braves to play in a crap division. I'm glad they play in a division with Philly. I want them to win the division by unseating a team like Philly. I'll never forget the season they caught the Giants [93 I believe] and sent a 100 win team home for October. An epic pennant race that can't happen in a crappy division.

[CashInFist]

19 fkin innings and the Pirates were pencil whipped. I want to go punch some kittens now.