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Scheftie: Kolb for a #1 LaConfora Orton for a #2

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, May 20, 2011.

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  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eagles in line for another Top 10 pick, the Cards were atrocious on Defense in 2010

    What we all knew:

    Pay the man, fully 33% of the 09 second rd has busted or been disappointments..
     
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  2. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Yeah LaCanfora was the guy I heard say that yesterday. for Orton. At least that's debatable between us for Orton, 2nd or 3rd rounder.

    A first + more for Kolb is insane. I heard one commentator on ESPN radio last Sunday morning stating that letting Kolb go would be the hugest mistake ever,
    1) because he thought Kolb was that good
    2) because he believed Vick will eventually revert back and slip up, and that even though he's "turned it around", he's one slip up from a lifetime suspension and the franchise needs Kolb there for when that happens.

    personally, I believe Kolb can only work in an Andy Reid type of offense. If Arizona trades the farm for him, Kolb is going to look no better than Henne last season. flashes of good play surrounded by mediocrity.
     
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  3. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I never bought the argument that Orton was going to be traded .Tebow is not ready to start and even if he were ready they need a veteran backup.
     
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  4. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well, Orton for a 2nd and Kolb for a 1st means Henne now has less competition i hope
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I suspect the Broncos are trying to "suck for Luck" CT, Fox is a newbie HC and they have the Elway covering, Orton, is not a part of that picture at 8.8 million, also if they want Luck, they will have to play Tebow if you get my meaning?

    Do not also be surprised if Dumervil is moved, he signed a big money extension with McDaniels, they drafted Miller and Ayers, they will run the 4-3,

    Dooms is really only suited to play the RDE or Will, Von Miller's natural position.
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Wow, really Ozman?

    You are one of my bellweathers on this board and among the few that are still in Henne's Camp so to speak.
     
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Na, I'm not a huge Henne fan. I do want to see him compete with some quality competition but not for a 1st or 2nd round pick that, to me, brings in two Qb's of lesser talent or not worthy of the pick.

    I can live with Henne one more season to see what he has learned but that's it.
     
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  8. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    I have always thought the same. When McDaniels took Tebow is wasn't for now, but for 2014 or so......Tebow is not ready to be an NFL starter and is at least 1 season away.
     
  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    [​IMG]

    Nice ***,
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Who would be "quality competition" in your view?

    (that sounds snarkier then I mean it to sound but do not have the words to ask in a different way)

    I've become disenchanted with the thought of bringing in a "get over" Vet Qb, and I hate the thought of using a season to see if Henne, and Henne alone, is the future at Qb for us, it sets us (fans) up for yet another round of "well you have to wait 3 yrs to see if the guy can play.." stuff.

    To me, if Kyle Orton ends that he is worth nearly any cost.
     
  11. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    If the Eagles get anything close to a top 32 pick for Kolb, Howie Roseman should die of alcohol poisoning a few hours after the celebratory party. That would be outright theft.

    Orton for a 2nd round pick isn’t as bad, but it’s still highway robbery. Let the Vikings make that mistake.
     
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  12. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we gave up a first for Kolb I would get physically ill, thats such an obvious joke of a trade I cannot believe anyone would even consider it.

    A 2nd for Orton, I wouldn't do it but its not anywhere near as bad a trade as a 1st for Kolb. I think Denver will keep Orton, I think thats why they didn't draft a Qb, although the 'suck for luck' scenario is interesting to consider.
     
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I would not mind Orton but not for a 2nd. Maybe a conditional 3rd.

    To me, I'd like Palmer over any Qb. I am a big fan of quality Qb that played in a Zampese offense and Palmer, to me, can adapt to any offense. However, I would not want him for the price they're asking either.

    I'm guess I'm just tired of trading away high picks more than anything.
     
  14. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Just say no to going into next year's draft minus a 2nd round pick again....... say no letting this regime mortgage the future on a stop gap QB that isn't talented enough to take us to a SB.

    A 2nd pick for Orton reeks of desperation.....
     
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  15. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To throw another name out there.............The one that keeps sticking in my mind is Matt Flynn from GB. I read a few months ago that we had "talked" with GB about him. I am not sure what I think about this one, but I dont want to give up a 1 or 2 for Orton or Kolb. Not sure what GB would want for him though.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, what is never discussed about the Dolphins fate is the presence of the Patsies in the AFCE, quite simply as long as they are here we will never beat them in the Draft Game, you just won't, they have 2 #1's every yr, a HoF Qb, and additional picks each rd outside of Rd #1 they can afford to have players bust, even high draft choices, we cannot afford to really have it happen which is why a Young Veteran is worth it to us imho.

    Which is one of the reasons why I remain a fan of Ireland and Sparano they understand that with the way things are structured in the NFL, we have to find alternative sources of talent acquisition then the draft, UDFA's, CFL, Acorns, AFL, Trades otherwise how are you going to compete, relying on the draft, when we have 1 #2 pick and the Patriots have 2 or 3 #2's?
     
  17. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I want the Dolphins to bring someone in, but I'm leaning towards the FA route. I just watched this year's draft with not having enough picks to make some of the moves we wanted. I think the fact we had such few picks, in comparison to other teams (especially no 2nd), forced us into that draft for need, rather than BPA. I don't like that. Not saying I didn't like our draft because I did.

    We've been drafting much, much better of late. I think those picks are all too important. I like Orton. I really like Orton, but I wonder what we could do with that second round pick (not only as a pick alone, but a package to move up next year).

    I'd be completely content to sign some of the guys out there. I mean, heck, we still have Tyler Thigpen, and whether we like it or not, I think he will be a serious consideration for the QB competition.
     
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  18. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    The suck for Luck strategy is a loser's strategy .We have a pretty good defense and at worse we will be in the middle of the pack which will not get us Luck.

    We do not have the ammunition to move up either.The Pats do and we may get what is leftover .

    Even if we do go for the worst record in the NFL there is no guarantee that Luck will be the QB everyone thinks he will be.He may have a career ending injury in training camp.

    This is a team game and you need to to have above average core players to win and that requires several years of good drafting and FA adquisions.

    In addition there are a lot of jobs on the line and even though the fans may want to tank the season those coaches whose jobs are on the line will not .They need to show that they at least tried their best .

    The QB position,while important is not as important as the quality and depth of the whole team and that includes coaching IMO.

    Henne may just be good enough to be able to lead such a team .Lets hope he produces without sacrificing the future of the team by spending draft picks on other teams discards who are short term solutions at best.
     
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  19. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    I don't think that's the case. While armchair GMs may have the luxury of wanting to do that, Front Offices have to try and win games, mostly to make money. I couldn't see Elway going to Pat Bowlen and telling him that they're basically going to throw away next year. Any FO who would go out and actually try the "suck for Luck" strategy would most likely find themselves on the unemployment line.

    I also don't see them trading off any more talent - Dumerville will be fine in Fox's defense, and McDaniels already traded off a bunch of the parts. Champ Bailey, on the other hand, is expensive and has lost a step. He's the most likely veteran to get moved IMO.
     
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  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well they won't say they are going to suck for luck VO, but put it this way "if" Orton is moved out then the popular Tim Tebow plays, if he plays well, great, you have a Qb, if he is terrible which he could be, Elway simply mumbles "have to give a Qb 3 yrs" and re-reads his dog eared copy of Andrew Luck's scouting report then stares out his office window..
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I agree, ya can't give up a 2nd straight across for Orton, but what I suggest is we offer is a 3rd that becomes a 2nd IF Orton takes half the offensive snaps and the team also makes the playoffs. That way, if Henne remains the starter, we only paid a 3rd for a high quality #2 QB and I don't think anyone reasonable can complain about that. If Orton did beat out Henne, and we make the playoffs, then IMO, we should gladly say that was worth a 2nd.
     
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  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Another way to structure a conditional pick for Orton would be offer a 4th that becomes a 3rd, if he takes half or more of the offensive snaps or we make the playoffs, and becomes a 2nd if both conditions happen.

    I can imagine someone here would say, "I don't want to make the playoffs, I want to win the Super Bowl." Or words to that effect. Well, we have to make the playoffs, duh, to go to the Super Bowl.
     
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  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I would have no problem at all coughing up a #2 pick for Orton.

    Straight up.
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Well, it sure wouldn't be as bad as giving up a 2 for Feeley, he of the 5 starts, or CPep coming off a major knee injury. Funny thing is, I seem to recall most fans were thrilled when Nicky made the trade for CPep.
     
  25. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'd be elated with this scenario! Elated! Both ways the Dolphins Qb situation instantly becomes better with quality depth.
     
  26. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I would imagine that is because you want to win right now. So do I but there is one thing to consider. With a very good running game, it is quite possible that Miami, with Henne, could become a very good team. Especially if the defense picks it up a notch.

    So with no way to know for sure that Orton would be the instant starter, I would not offer a 2nd straight up. A conditional 3rd would be the absolute most I'd offer...
     
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  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't recall the exact conditions but when we traded for Ricky, the 2nd pick was conditional. We did not give them 2 firsts straight up. Then Ricky has his career year in 2002 and the 2nd pick upgrades to a 1st. Conditional picks are the way to go.

    Also, with Orton, the parameters of any trade would include him agreeing to a new long term, 4-5 year deal, preferably fairly incentive laden.
     
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  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Then we lost a #2 pick , the world does not end tomorrow, if Henne plays like, well Henne, then he sits and his backup is not a schmoe.

    Now what must be avoided is doing that yr after yr after yr then getting no production out of the rest of the draft class which has not been a problem so far.
     
  29. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Nice idea, but Orton isn't coming here or anywhere else to "compete" for a job. If he comes he's the starter, end of story. Imagine Ireland or Sparano having to explain why they gave up draft pick(s) and are paying 9 million dollars for a back-up QB who couldn't beat out Mr. $550,000, Chad Henne. They might as well say "b/c we're idiots who need to be fired".

    IMO that money would be better spent on DeAngelo Williams, or another FA who isn't a middle of the pack starter like Orton. Or we could use the dough to extend Soliai and Wake. Henne's in the last year of his deal as well. But paying big bucks for a guy who isn't even a clear upgrade over what we currently have is a bad idea IMO.
     
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  30. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    The world ends tonight I thought.

    No way I do a straight up trade for that high of a pick. Not worth it im my eyes. He needs to earn it for his former team if they want it.
     
  31. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Thought about him as well. He's going to be more than they'll want to pay though IMO. I think he fits Daboll's O (if you go off Cleveland offense) and I think we'll see more 3-5 step drops with quick game and that works in his favor.
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Oh it did, but this is not a theology discussion.


    This is the one thing I'm not grasping Ozman, if Qb is THAT important to the success or failure of the season, how could it not be "worth" it?
     
  33. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    OK here it is! Orton imo, is a decent Qb. Something that Henne could very well be with a good running game! So I would not budge and make them either trade him elsewhere of lower the price to at the very least, conditional.
     
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  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well look at it this way, 31 slots, maybe less, in the draft should not hold up a deal, imho anyway.

    If they like his game, they should pay it, if not, do not, no halfway measure will do.
     
  35. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Terrible news for anyone hoping for a legitimate competition at quarterback for the Miami Dolphins.
    Jason LaCanfora of the NFL Network, reports today that "people I've talked to" in Denver are telling him they can see a scenario where Orton is the Broncos' starting QB in 2011 -- ahem, whenever the season actually gets underway.
    "Orton is valued by the Broncos," LaCanfora writes. "They know he can be a winning quarterback. He's smart and can absorb a system, and has some natural chemistry with receivers there like Brandon Lloyd. For a franchise that is dealing with significant fan unrest, and coming off a collapse of a season, and with a new regime in place, the Broncos need to win some games. Now.
    "Without question, Orton gives them the best chance to do that"
     
  36. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I don't think we'd trade a 2nd or higher (looking almost like a 1st lately) for competition. If we made that trade, Orton would already be our starter, imo.

    O well..
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    how'd you like Dumerville reunite with Nolan and play with wake.?
     

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