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What makes a good team----a great team?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by vt_dolfan, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    We have had what, two and a half seasons with Sparano and Ireland, and to me, it feels like a common theme is starting to develop. "Missed opportunities".

    We have an organization that preaches all of the right things to develop a fundamentally sound football team. And, really, you cant argue with their results. You can count on one hand the number of games this team has had with them running the show, where we were clearly out classed and had no shot at winning. You can look to 3-5 plays in every loss where had things happened differently, we could have or would have, won. Clearly, there is no question Ireland and Sparano are adept at building a good, solid, you know what your gonna get football team.

    But, is an organization like that capable of building a "great" team. I wonder. When you look at what I consider the benchmark for how to build a football team in this day and age, the New England Patriots, you just see something different. And I think that difference is that Bill Belichick. It cant be all about talent, because the first Super Bowl won against the Rams was won with players who were cast off's from other teams. That team lined up every Sunday, and they were not the most talented team on the field. But, they won.

    I get the sense that there is an over riding feeling of trying to hard "NOT" to make mistakes. I think to take that step from being a good team, to a great team, you have to be willing to take chances.

    I have not seen a defense under Mike Nolan that is the attacking style we had anticipated. They wont blitz alot, because they dont want expose their DB's. They wont take chances being aggressive on offense, because they believe in mistake free, sound, ball control. But when you hear someone like Ed Reed, who might just be the best safety to play the game behind Ronnie Lott, say they know Chad Henne will not be aggresive, and they can just play basic sound defense with him, I see a reflection of the coaching style.

    Ive played enough competitive sports in my life, to know one thing. Yes, it is about talent. But you cant play scared. And I don't mean scared as in, deer in the headlights, John Beck, scared. I mean, taking just one extra second to throw a ball to a receiver like Marshall because you hear the words "turnover" in your head. You think, "just dont drop it" and end up dropping it.

    The single biggest flaw this coaching staff has made, has been to not teach this team to be great. They have taught them to be good.

    You can say what you want, but they had a chance to get a receiver like Randy Moss. He was available for nothing more than his pay. He would have been an instant outside deep threat, one teams would have had to roll over a safety to not get beat. But it meant taking a chance. It meant possibly having it blow up in your face. And so what if it did. Doesnt Sparano have enough confidence in himself that he could either handle Randy Moss, or handle a locker room if Moss created a mess? Jeff Fisher is a coach who knows he can handle it. And year after year, the Titans have been a team that wins more than it loses. The Titans reflect the persona of Fisher and that organization. They arent afraid of taking a chance to be great.

    Now, being a good, know what your gonna get, team year in and year out is ok, I guess for some. But me personally, I would take that chance to be great, even if it meant having it blow up. When you have gotten a team to the point the Phins are....I would look at them and say, guys, you know how to play this game. Its your turn. Play with abandon. Play with fire, and if we make a mistake, so what, its not the end of the world. Play loose, and play fast and DONT BE AFRAID TO BE GREAT.

    I like Sparano, alot. He's a good coach. Im just not sold he can be a great coach. Something has got to change in this teams mentality.
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    How about "The difference between us and the 4 teams we have lost to?"

    Not to hijack your thread Vt as I think this goes hand in hand:

    Jets, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, all 4 teams pressured every element of the football game, Defense, Offense, Special Teams.

    Think about it, the Ravens were stoned on returns all day long, they went nowhere, however a simple assignment mistake on a punt attempt, Ravens audibles to a pass to the open man=first down.

    There is zero...-0-..nein chance Sparano would ever allow Fields to do the same thing.

    It is like that over and over again, all 4 teams throw deep passes and hit on them, we rarely hit on deep passes, all 4 teams can run screens effectively, we cannot, all 4 have Te's who can be factors downfield, we do not.
     
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  3. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    VT Dolfan me and you are seeing this team through the same eyes. Im tired of this chicken sh*t philosophy they are preaching to this team!

    We have the players, let them play! They are playing afraid and "choking"!
     
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  4. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You werent hijacking the thread Padre, not at all. ITS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHAT I MEAN. This team is AFRAID of momentum. Im sorry, I know we have enough talent on this team to be at worst a 6-2 team. There are glimpses of how good we can be. The Packers game, we came out swinging. Fast, we moved the ball down the field and we scored. We were up. Our next possesion instead of going for the kill....we decide eh...turtle. Protect out meager lead...our tiny little "precious"....

    I can almost hear Sparano and Henning saying, "my precious" when we have a little lead. Must protect precious....instead of saying F' this....let bury the Mo Fo's. We did it with the Steelers game.

    I have seen it in Chad Henne....when this aura of protectionism fades and he returns to playing football like he did when their wasnt an audience except maybe for the cars parked along the street. It was in the Jets game...THE DAMNED GRIN OF A CAT....he was tearing that defense a new one...he tasted blood, and for that one night, our staff let him taste it. He strutted.

    You know why Dan Marino would have been a great QB for this offense. No, not because of his quick release, or his arm. The guy would have f'n lost it if they were gonna try and tie his hands. He dared defenses to take risks against him. He had a killer instinct. Fire. Remember when Marino got sacked in Pittsburgh by Greg Lloyd, and Marino reached up grabbed ahold of Lloyds face mask and verbally tore him an *******? Marino's personality is what would have let him excel in this offense. His personality wouldnt allow us to turtle up.
     
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  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    In Belichek's case, i think the difference was Brady. In Cleveland, Belichek put together a strong defense, but it was a team that was never great. Then in NE, Belichek made another strong defense, but he also had that play maker on offense in Brady. Brady was a guy who made few mistakes, but then developed into the guy that took the smart chances. Sparano has built a good team. If his team ever takes that step to great, it will mostly likely be b/c Henne learns to take those smart chances.
     
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  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    As much potential as our young secondary possesses, if they're not going to take advantage of INT opportunities or cause more turnovers, then someone is gonna have to be upgraded..... which would be a damn shame.






    Great teams emphasize great special teams and field position and understand its importance. They take full advantage of TO opportunities (both making the play AND converting them into points) and then use these capitalized opportunities to keep their opponents off balance....... they aren't afraid to take shots at a big play....... and they certainly don't choose the wussy conservative approach when they have a lead; rather they stomp their foot on their opponents throat to put a game a way. Great teams have a swagger to them. Great teams are also full of players who can win games for them b/c it's virtually impossible to rely on the same few people to win games week in and week out.
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    This.

    This is the only game I need. And this is the game that makes me feel the same way CK does--- that Henning just isn't matched well for Henne, and IMO is holding Chad's development and success back.
     
  8. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agreed... and the thing that I think makes Henne grow up and gives us a LEAP forward is only if Henne gets to the point where he has the balls to OCCASIONALLY go into the huddle and say.. "Okay guys, here's what the coaches called, but eff that, HERE'S what we're gonna run." lol.

    Not often, or he'd get benched.

    But ALL the greats talk about needing to do that when they had a FEEL for the game and KNEW they could attack and win. Often, they say, they'll pretend they can;'t hear the call because of crowd noise or the headset malfunctioning. lol.

    Henne lacks THAT swagger and leadership. Lacks that confidence.

    He's a coaches lapdog at present. And our coaches are very conservative.
     
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  9. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Qb is the diffrence between a great and good team.Thats why pitt,pats,colts are in the hunt every year.Until we find that whether its henne or somebody else we are going to a 6-10 or 10-6 every year with no real hope of a title.
    Mark my words the jets will not be in the superbowl because sanchez sucks.
     
  10. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Or someone other than Henne
     
  11. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Knowing that our regime has "temporarily" turned him into this makes me sick to my f'n stomach. Is it too late to snag Raheem Morris from the Bucs? lol. He's got the swagger and leadership that I wan't in this team.
     
  12. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    We don't have many scoring weapons in the passing game. We have a backup Tight End as our only tight end. We have two truly reliable receivers in Marshall and Bess. We could've used Randy Moss to see if he could help since it can't get any worse, but the FO ****ed that up again. The Ravens just flat out have a better team all around, except for our MVP kicker.

    Dolphins have barely used the running game, so that is still hard to tell.
     
  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    This exactly!! QBs are only as good as the tools/weapons they have to work with.

    -We have a bottom tier TE with nothing behind him. FACT.
    -We DO only have 2 legit receivers. FACT (Hartline is FAR from a legit receiver while being used in the #2 role. If he becomes our #4, then he could be called a legit #4.)
    -We have 2 FA rookies at #4 & #5 who have caught 2 passes for 18 yards between them. FACT
    -We offer little threat out of the backfield with R&R compared to a legit COP back like Jhavid Best. FACT
    -We have a horrible special teams return game that rarely gives us a short field to work with. FACT
    -We have only 8 turnovers on defense, good for 31st in the NFL. (meaning more stress on the offense to perform and less short field opportunities) FACT

    QBs can NOT do it all by themselves, no matter HOW GOOD THEY ARE. Peyton is one of the best to ever play, but Indy STILL surrounds him with elite talent to thrive. Ditto for Brady, Brees, Eli, Vick, Ryan, Rodgers, Warner, Montana, Marino, Fouts, Bradshaw, Aikman, Elway, Roethlisberger, Favre, etc etc. If the pass catchers didn't matter than Indy WOULD'VE spent all those 1st round offensive weapon picks on defense instead. It's basic common sense.

    A QB can only be as good as his pass catchers can allow him to be.

    When we only have Marshall and Bess and defenses have 6-7 in coverage w/o worrying about the deep field, then Marshall and Bess are pretty much null and void. At least Brandon had Scheffler and 4.3 Eddie Royal to help open up the field to give Marshall more space to make plays.
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think we are on the same page, but I do not stop with Henne, I see every unit lacks that attitude of "attack attack attack!!!!"

    This Crowder nonsense, to me is a great example, the Bully is not worried if you run to the principle's office, he is worried he will be laid out with a upper cut to the chin.

    Same crap when Matt Light took a poke at Crowder in 08 or 09.

    Where I come from no need for talking, don't say anything, just whip their *** or get your *** whipped, one way or another, it is going down.

    None of this "smart football" crap, sure you will probably be ejected, sometimes that is called for just to set a tone that "we aren't taking your bull****".
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    If it's someone other than Henne then it probably won't be Sparano's team anymore.
     
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  16. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    TNT! Time N Talent
     
  17. frags

    frags New Member

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    VT, I despise the "sky is falling" type of threads, but I did give your post a chance and tbh I wholeheartedly agree. For some time now I have become irritated with the "safe" approach. Safe is good, but you have to take chances.

    To draw an analogy, I view our team in comparison to others like this: investments. Invest in treasury bonds and you will be guaranteed a return over a certain time period. Nothing more to it...put in X dollars and receive Y dollars after it matures. That is our football team. Then you have the stock market, which is far more risky yet the rate of return can conceivably be quite larger. Teams like the Patriots invest in the stock market more than treasury bonds...Not to say we do not, because we go for it on 4th and 1 every now and then, but I am sure you can grasp the point I am making. They use every opportunity to win (including Spygate :up:), but hey 3 Super Bowls compared to our horse ****. That was out of line and I am not advocating for us to cheat in no way, shape, or form, but rather demonstrating the mindset of their coach is, simply put, to take chances and live with the consequences.

    I am convinced now after these games that Marshall is not "Marshall" because of our coaching and playcalling.

    You make an excellent point about the "mistakes mindset." That plays into taking chances, or a lack thereof. I am convinced when what is drilled into your head is mistake free, mistake free, mistake free...you worry too much about that and not about, as you put it, playing loose and going for big plays/taking chances. The Henne run is a perfect example: I am sure his head was drilled all week (with Ray in the middle might I add) with the notion of holding onto the ball at all costs.

    The fake punt in part was our fault as we made a mistake by not having 11 men on the field...therefore the player was open and they adjusted on the fly...a sign of good coaching. That catch in the second half on the sidelines by Boldin (if I am not mistaken) on 3rd and 10 for a first down should have been challenged imo but no...and the replay seemingly showed an inch or two of his shoe was over the line...again no challenge and no risk taking. Heck, if you are going to blow your timeouts in an ignorant fashion (which we agree has happened with Sparano) why not just use them on a freaking challenge that could change the complexion of the game in our favor. Again...keep investing in bonds.

    You make the point about Nolan, look at him in Denver and look at him here. Sound job, cannot fault him for that...but there is a corollary to what we are discussing: McDaniels v. Sparano.

    I have digressed sufficiently, but its satisfying for me to express these thoughts, because frankly, I have been feeling them for a while. I have a very competitive mindset and I am willing to take risks knowing the possible consequences so it frustrates me to see this type of mindset day in and day out. Most know the story of Gates leaving Harvard to pursue Microsoft. Warren Buffett purchased a used pinball machine (I think it was) to put into local barber shop while he was in high school for $20-25 in 1944/5 and in months had multiple machines in other shops. Calculated risks can lead to greatness, while sound investments will keep you...sound.
     
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  18. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I think the examples you made above are right on frags. Invest in Bonds...keep your 401K smart and intact....you'll retire with a nest egg and maybe only have to pickup a part time job.

    Invest a portion in your portfolio into risk....and..yes you can lose it....but you could also retire a millionaire. YOU WONT become a rich millionaire without taking a risk, unless you get very very lucky.

    What was that Garth Brooks song.....

    Life is not tried it is merely survived when you dance outside the fire.

    Im trying to be patient...but I want us to at least make the attempt to be great. I can deal with striking out to lose the world series...if you struck out swinging. I cannot stomach a player who watched a called strike three to lose the game.
     
  19. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    To be fair, it's hard to be more aggressive and take more chances with very inexperienced players than with a veteran team.
     
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  20. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I hated the way the team played during the Wannstedt era. They played to keep the game close and hoped they could pull it out at the end. The Dolphins under Sparano play this exact same way. I am sick and tired of this way of playing football. Just as I was happy to see Wannstedt fired. I will not shed any tears when Ross shows Sparano the door. The rules in the NFL today favor offense. Unfortunately the Dolphins built their team based on the rules when Parcells was winning Super Bowls.
    Defense first and hope the offense could score enough to win. The problem is that the defense is not a top tier defense and the Dolphins offense can only be counted on to score one TD a game. As a fan since 1966 and a season ticket holder since 1969.
    I am sick of watching the mediocre team the Dolphins have been for well over a decade. The owner did not hire Sparano, Ireland , or Parcells. He inherited them.
    I think it is time he takes control of the team and finally brings in a new staff which can do a better job of drafting players and providing the fans of the Dolphins with a
    product on the field which we can be proud of. The players and coaches now representing the Dolphins are obviously not able to provide the fans the team we deserve.
     
  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I have the ability to drive a golf ball 350 yards...... but I sure as s#!t can't do it with a 7 iron. Our offense right now is a 7 iron, and it's handicapping Henne's ability to drive us down the field.
     
  22. frags

    frags New Member

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    I concur, that is what I was thinking as I wrote my discourse...We more or less mimic Wannstedt's mindset. Our offense is not as bad as his "run, run, pass," but it borders the notion of predictability when you do not take risks.

    Concerning a staff, I would love to see Nolan get a second shot at a head coaching position on our team. Everything I know and have seen of him and what he stands for and brings to the table is what I would want in a head coach. From the suit on the sideline down to his aggressive mindset.
     
  23. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Right...but this is different, isnt it BP? This is a philosophy Im afraid, not a reduce risk by learning. It seems like a Mantra. When we drove down the field like we did on occasions with the Steelers and Ravens and in Green Bay...so not going for the jugular afterwords because we have such a young team?
     
  24. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    If your golf coach noticed you shanked about 50% of your driver shots though, and hit your irons 95% of the time... what would they want you to do?
     
  25. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    To answer the question: Pancakes
     
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  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm not sure..... my last 350 yard drive was on the green, so I think he'd say "keep it up". :lol:
    :tongue2: (that was also 8 years ago and haven't played since hurting my shoulder, but still :shifty:)

    Our offense is completely void of playmakers and it's driving me nuts to see us pass them by year after year in the draft while bottom teams like Oakland and Tampa Bay etc are gobbling them up.

    And yes, we are void of playmakers. Marshall is a playmaker WHEN he has space...... but when he doesn't have space, he's reduced to nothing more than a possession receiver. Ditto goes for Bess. Drafting a guy like DeSean Jackson or Jacoby Ford along with an Aaron Hernandez would allow Marshall and Bess to be the playmakers they're meant to be.
     
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  27. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Cant have pancakes and not have any sizzle, or er....bacon.
     
  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    They can keep Raheem Morris, but I'd love to have Tampa's schedule. 7-1 baby!!! :up:
     
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  29. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Just listening to Sparano's press conference. You kow, he's such a minutiae beancounter type guy.

    He's not a leader type, imo.

    IN the corporate world he'd make n EXCELLENT Operations VP. Logistics and details. Not the CEO, who needs more vision, more openness, more confidence. More risk taking balls.

    In the Film world he'd be a GREAT first assistant director. Gets everyone organized. Gets things happening on time, cameras delviered, film delivered, setups done on time, talent ready where and when they should be. Logistics again. He does NOT have the vision, confidence and charisma to be a Hollywood Director. Just his assistant.

    In the military he'd be an AMAZING Sargeant. On top of the guys. in the trenches. Getting things dug, set up and moved in the right amounts, right times, with precision. Exact. Exact. Exact. But in terms of inspiring the troops, having the powerful quality a leader does like a Naploen or Patton leading men into battle, I don;t see it. He's a beancounter, quartermaster or staff sargeant.

    In football, I think he's the PERFECT Quality Control assistant head coach. I really do. He loves minutiae, micromanaging details. Exact snap counts. Film breakdown. Tiny mechanics and execution of ech technique and play. He excels at that. GREAT QUaltiy Control Coach or positional coach. But he lacks the creativity, bravado and willingness to take risks, TRUST, and OPTIMISM (as opposed to "Be Afraid Of The Worst That Could HAppen") that a grwat head coach needs. I don;t see a vision nor a leader at this point. Not a NATURAL one. He does decently, but his best fit, imo, is underneath someone like that.

    He is a good head coach. He certainly is not a GREAT one, imo. He could be GREAT if we played to his strengths and let someone else take on the helm of the ship.


    Hope I am dead wrong. He is like Lombardi if Lombardi were scared, had OCD and was an accountant. lol.
     
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  30. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Two things off the top of my head--good, consistent QB play and a defense that causes TOs.
     
  31. Miguel

    Miguel The smartest Man on earth

    A good QB is a nice place to start
     
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