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Thread: Grading the CFL to NFL signees

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    Default Grading the CFL to NFL signees

    What do these names have in common:

    Complete list:

    Jonathon Hefney (DB - WPG) - Detroit Lions
    Dudley Guice Jr. (WR - WPG) - Indianapolis Colts
    Derrick Doggett (LB - WPG) - Pittsburgh Steelers
    Titus Ryan (WR - WPG) - Dallas Cowboys
    Pat MacDonald (LS - WPG) - Seattle Seahawks
    Rolly Lumbala (FB - BC) - Miami Dolphins
    Ryan Grice-Mullen (WR - BC) - Miami Dolphins
    Martell Mallett (RB - BC) - Philidelphia Eagles
    Ricky Foley (DE - BC) - Seattle Seahawks
    Larry Taylor (WR - MTL) - New York Jets
    SJ Green (WR - MTL) - New York Jets
    Walter Curry (DT - TOR) - Jacksonville Jaguars
    Justin Medlock (K/P - TOR) - Washington Redskins
    John Chick (DE - SSK) - Indianapolis Colts
    Stevie Baggs (DE - SSK) - Arizona Cardinals
    Renauld Williams (LB - SSK) - Pittsburgh Steelers
    Bo Smith (DB - HAM) - New York Jets
    Dmitri Tsoumpas (OL - CGY) Miami Dolphins
    8 of those players wound up on 2009 playoff teams.

    Larry Taylor, Dimitri Tsoumpas, Stevie Baggs, Jonathon Hefney, John Chick, Martell Mallet were all CFL all stars and Ricky Foley was the MVP among Canadians or 7 of the 18 players that were signed were the upper echelon of the the CFL.


    Aside from all being succssful CFL players, they also are going to teams that are in the "Top 8", at least some of the good ones are:

    John Chick-CFL DPOY-Colts, they cannot sign FA's unless they lose a UFA and even then, the contract must be for less than 4.95 million or so, the Colts Bill Pollian imho is the best GM in the NFL for finding gems and turning them into starters, Chick had washed out with the Texans in 06, went the CFL and remade himself.

    The Colts have added 3 CFLers, in Chick, Giguere and Dudley Guice.

    Larry Taylor-Jets-CFL Special Teams all star for two years in a row, the Jets are in that T8 group that have to scrounge around for talent especially with L Washington's broken leg.

    Skyler Greene-one time Ireland draftee in Dallas he also returns kicks.

    Bo Smith-he never stood out to me while watching the CFL games this year.

    Dolphins-signed three players,after last yr's Cam Wake and T George, this year Tsoumpas, Ryan Mullens and Rory Lumbala.

    Steelers-hit a home run with Stefan Logan last season, he set a Steelers all time return yardage record, he is supposedly not as fast as Ryan Grice Mullens, Renauld Williams will take a shot at being Lb depth, Derrick Dogget is a undersized Lb who really doesn't have a role, but the Steelers are one of the best run franchises in the NFL, if he has the talent to stick they will find a job for him to do, it wouldn't surprise to see him at Free Safety in the preseason.

    Cardinals-Stevie Baggs, he was John Chick's running mate for the Sk Roughriders, reminds a bit of Austen Lane/Brandon Lang, a tall athlete who moves well.

    Seahawks-Pete Carrol signed two CFLers, McDonald a long snapper and Ricky Foley who tied for the CFL lead in sacks with 12 and was voted the most outstanding Canadian, Foley, who I've followed, was used more like a traditional NFL OLB, they ran stunts with him and dropped him back into coverage, he is a good athlete who should make an impact on Special Teams at the least.

    Lions-John Hefney, he played well as a rookie Cb in the CFL, he lacks size but has good quickness with the depleted Lions Db's he has a good shot of sticking on a NFL roster.

    Eagles-Martell Mallet-ROY type, nice speed, nice hands, but his straight up and down running style may not last very long in the NFL.



    Grades:

    Colts-A-Chick is a good NFL prospect and Guice and Giguere give the Colts good depth at Wr, Giguere in particular is immensely physically talented with a top vertical leap at the 08 Combine

    Jets-B-Painful to say, but the two themes that dominate the new CFL to NFL jumpers are "Cameron Wake and Stefan Logan" there are no Wake's this year, but Larry Taylor is every bit the kick returner that Stefan Logan is.

    Dolphins-B minus-Dimitri Tsoumpas was a Day 1 starter in the CFL, but CFL to NFL jumps by Olinemen are rare, Ryan Grice Mullens has 4.36 speed, but inconsistent hands as a WR, Lumbala could be camp fodder, he has a nice frame at 6'2, but Lou Polite is a All Pro caliber FB and Lumbala is no Mike Sellers in the blocking dept or in the knowledge of offenses dept, at least so far, otherwise he could be a nice HBack type.

    Seahawks-B-Ricky Foley fielded offers from the Rams and Eagles but chose Seattle a college decathlete he was a threat to win shotput events while at York and he ran a 4.53 40, at worst Pete Caroll added a experienced Special Teams player at best he landed a nice situational passrusher for a relatively inexpensive CFL sized signing bonus. Longsnapper McDonald has to win a job.

    Cardinals-C-Stevie Baggs has to convert to OLB which places a large roadblock in his road to being a rotational player, interestingly enough, the Cards place a value on Special Teams players so he will at least get a serious look in Traning Camp.

    Best of the Rest-Titus Ryan has plenty of speed but will need a lights out Camp to make the Cowboys roster, the Jags are set at DT so Curry will also need help, Dogget and Williams could be camp bodies at best, and Medlock will compete for the Kicking job in DC.

    There are no Cameron Wake's this year, Baggs could be something, Ricky Foley could be a David Bowens type of OLB/ST player but the real action is at KR, Taylor, Green, Grice Mullens, Titus Ryan, any one of those players could be appearing on ESPN highlights in 2010.

    Martell Mallet is a sleeper, if he had went to a different team than the Eagles that is, where McCoy will be the lead back in the rotation, Mallet has long odds at making the team and seeing playing time.

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    For fun, here are some of the si.com scouting reports on some of those players:

    http://images.si.com/football/2006/d...ers/48007.html

    John Chick also ran a 4.61 40:

    POSITIVES: High-energy, athletic defender best making plays up the field. Fluid changing direction, and plays with good pad level. Quick reading the action and locating the ball. Fast off the edge and displays speed pursuing to the flanks. Quick closing on the action and goes very hard.

    NEGATIVES: First-move lineman easily handled at the point of attack by a single blocker. Lacks footwork and ability in space.
    Grice Mullen:

    POSITIVES: Reliable receiver who.s at his best in a timing offense. Solid route-runner who quickly gets into breaks and stays low on exit. Easily makes the reception in stride, adjusting to the errant throw and looking the ball into his hands. Effectively makes body-catches when necessary. Recognizes coverage and finds the open spot on the field.

    NEGATIVES: Marginal deep speed and not a home run hitter. Average size.
    Clearly before he ran a 4.36 40..

    Sam Giguere:

    Samuel Giguere, Wide Receiver, Universite de Sherbrooke
    Across the board everyone agrees Giguere, who exploded onto the CIS football scene in 2007, is the most exceptional athlete available. He is a chiseled six-foot, 215-pound specimen, so ripped that one NFL scout suggested “even his crap has muscles.” Giguere can fly – his combine-best 4.49 in the 40 overshadowed by his 42-inch vertical leap, although to a man the latter is eye-popping. The all-Canadian is getting a number of NFL looks but is not expected to be drafted south, rather perhaps be a free agent pick-up afterwards. Clearly Montreal has no problem with its draft picks (see Erik Deslauriers, taken seventh overall in 2006) exploring options south first, and Giguere, according to an Eastern scout is “head and shoulders the best receiver out there.” In taking a Canadian receiver, the Als also address a need, what with Ben Cahoon most likely sticking around for another season or two before retirement.
    http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/Chi...rtsFan/tag/CFL

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    Sherbrooke (Canada) senior wide receiver Samuel Giguere is attracting interest. He finished second in the Canadian Interuniversity Sport (CIS) with 45 receptions for 871 yards and seven touchdowns, averaging more than 19 yards per catch. He has been timed in the 4.4 range in the 40-yard dash with a career best time of 4.35. Giguere ran 4.41 for me during the workout session of this past spring's East-West Bowl held in Quebec City. He is a rare natural athlete with a 40-inch vertical, 4.14 short shuttle, 10-foot, 1-inch broad jump and has also completed 23 reps of 225 pounds during offseason training. Not subject to NCAA rules, he was able to sign with an agent while still having a year of college eligibility remaining. He signed with well-known CFL agent Darren Gill who has represented Jason Clermont and Chris Bauman, two of the top-rated receivers in recent CFL Draft memory. You could hear Giguere's name among the players assigned to the East-West Shrine Game or another postseason game.
    He also had a 41 inch vertical leap:


    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...draftyear=2008

    Interestingly enough, Grice Mullen had the 6th fastest 10yd time at 1.45

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    Sounds like the Colts got a player in Sam Giguere. Don't know how he's going to get some PT though, with Gonzalez, Garcon, Collie and Wayne on the roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashraf View Post
    Sounds like the Colts got a player in Sam Giguere. Don't know how he's going to get some PT though, with Gonzalez, Garcon, Collie and Wayne on the roster.
    That is the beauty of signing CFLers rafie, they can be placed on the practice squad for 2 yrs and there is not much of a chance they are poached by another team.

    At worst he is a camp body with upside, at best he can fillin and play at a high level physically.

    And John Chick had the measurables to be drafted and make a team with a 4.61 40, however he was to raw, two years in the CFL and he has gained enough experience to refine his skills.

    That cat is going to be a good player in the NFL, Bill Polian is doing a really great job stocking the groceries in Indy, Ireland is doing good, not great, Wake counts for alot, and Ryan Grice Mullen really could come on this year returning kicks.

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    I see what the scout meant when he said his crap hus muscles. I think Giguere could see playing time next season if he can beat out Hank Basket.

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    The reason why I gave Ireland a B is because a Olineman making the ju mp from the CFL to the NFL is rare...incredibly rare, Dimitri Tsoumpas will be the first CFLer to try to do it in years maybe since Mark Dixon did it for the Phins over 10yrs ago.



    A nice story about Tsoumpas's training regime prior to going #3 in the CFL draft:

    http://conditioningforoptimumresults...-tsoumpas.html

    That leaves BGM and Rolly Lumbala, and RGM can/may stick as a kick returner, but Lumbala is stuck behind Lou Polite.

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    I can really see RGM push Ted Ginn Jr for the KR duties. If anything, he will make TGJ earn a spot on the roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashraf View Post
    I can really see RGM push Ted Ginn Jr for the KR duties. If anything, he will make TGJ earn a spot on the roster.
    Maybe...

    RGM is the anti Ted Ginn, were Teddy goes down quicker than a prom..err...he avoids contact..RGM is fearless..he will run the ball up into the pile to try and break something.

    As Wr though..not so much, RGM's hands are more Ginn than Camarillo's.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_laKyar1Uc&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=59339 C0F883D6C2D"]YouTube- CFL BC 18, Calgary 27 - September 25, 2009[/ame]

    RGM takes the opening kickoff

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9NN1hy-kUs"]YouTube- Ryan Grice-Mullen Sets CFL Playoff Record[/ame]

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    RGM reminds of Bess, but with more speed. It has to be the hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashraf View Post
    RGM reminds of Bess, but with more speed. It has to be the hair.
    Exactly, but Bess is thicker from 2 yrs in the NFL and has better hands.

    Here are some higlights of Dimitri Tsoumpas (#67 for Calgary) and John Chick (#97 in green):

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoX6sEKCJlQ"]YouTube- Calgary Stampeders @ Saskatchewan Roughriders Highlights, Nov. 7/09[/ame]

    Tsoumpas blocks two men down at the goaline for the TD at 1:40 or so.

    John Chick just beasts the Calgary tackle for the sack strip at 3:48 or so.

    Some more Rory Lumbala at 1:55

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7CiwkZlXpw&feature=PlayList&p=59339C0F883 D6C2D&index=24"]YouTube- CFL BC 36, Toronto 28 - August 14, 2009[/ame]

    And RGM with one heck of a nice punt return at 3:47

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0vz6a9NbTo&feature=PlayList&p=59339C0F883 D6C2D&index=40"]YouTube- CFL Toronto 17, BC 23 - September 19, 2008[/ame]

    And at 1:56 here, watch him lower his shoulder and hit the tackler to pick up an extra yard or so, Ted Ginn never does this:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6GjVwhlgbI"]YouTube- CFL Calgary 28, B.C. 26 - October 31, 2009[/ame]

    And at 1:15 or so on this one, RGM runs the end around at the goaline:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiQU4e-2YQ8"]YouTube- CFL BC 18, Hamilton 30 - July 31, 2009[/ame]

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    From what I've seen of RGM, I like. He is always looking to pick up extra yards. Instead of running out of bounds, you see him cutting the ball inside for the extra yards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashraf View Post
    From what I've seen of RGM, I like. He is always looking to pick up extra yards. Instead of running out of bounds, you see him cutting the ball inside for the extra yards.
    Exactly, that is why he is the Anti Ted Ginn, and a part of the reason "why" Imho he could do something for the Dolphins in 2010 on kick returns. And he runs the same way on punt returns.

    He ran a 4.36 at the Combine and has had two years in the CFL to get himself straightened out.

    John Chick was sort of Cam Wake of the 09 CFL season:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycqpFNuAC7o"]YouTube- John Chick 2009 Labour Day: Pass knockdown, 2 sacks, goal line stuff[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATWWYs-X1OU"]YouTube- John Chick sack, forced fumble and recovery against Hamilton[/ame]

    Imho he'll stick in the NFL because he has learned how to use leverage to move people.

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    Default I'll probably regret this as it is positive for the Jets guy

    This cat is a part of the reason why the Jest did well with CFL signees:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74lOaZJ5Ls"]YouTube- Larry Taylor #24[/ame]

    Dude is a sick sick return man, quick more than fast, some of the stuff he did in college and the CFL won't work in the NFL but still, he does have alot of talent.

    And one retraction, "SJ Green" is not "Skyler Green" he is an ex USF player who more than likely several forum members have watched play, Skyler Green the ex Dallas player is in the CFL but plays for Edmonton.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaH2EOVXJgs"]YouTube- #81 - SJ Green -WR[/ame]

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    And here is the third Colts signing from the CFL Dudley Guice:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LokDWMKRb9s"]YouTube- Dudley Guice - Tennessee Titans - Draft Video Profile[/ame]

    The Draft Guys did a video scouting report on him basically because he ran a 4.39 and 4.4 at his pro day workouts.

    So the Colts picked up two large, physically gifted athletes in Geguire and Guice to act as depth as well as the CFL DPOY, Bill Polian appears to know what he is doing with these guys and that is why the Colts receive an A grade for sifting some prospects from the Great White North.

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    And not all of the NFL caliber talent has left the CFL for the NFL, 2007's largest draft collapse, Adarius Bowman resurrected his football career in the Great White North:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MdLWbzBw1Q"]YouTube- Adarius Bowman Highlights[/ame]

    From being kicked out of UNC for mj charges that were later dropped, to Lasik surgery, Bowman makes for an interesting story:

    http://warroomreport.com/index.php?o...d=187&Itemid=1

    Bowman sounds like one of those players who the NFL talent evaluation system chewed up and spat out which of course makes him a great target for a team that needs a big Wr..if not this year, then in 2011.

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    Here is Derrick Dogget's role on the Steelers:

    http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/01/1...rrick-doggett/


    The club allowed an NFL-high four kickoff return touchdowns while ranking near the bottom of the NFL in kickoff and punt coverage. Doggett played for the Edmonton Eskimos in 2008 and the Winnipeg Blue Bombers last season, when he made 27 tackles on special teams. He also had one interception.
    27 tackles on ST? The NFL leader, Chicago's Tim Shaw had 21.

    Having Woodley and Harrison locked in as starting OLB's makes a hole for a Special Teamer, Dogget was a OSU Beaver.

    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2008&genpos=SS

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    Default Eh, Ill just make this thread the all in one CFL to NFL thread.

    http://www.thespec.com/article/706174

    The death of both the Arena Football League and NFL Europa means that the CFL and the fledgling United Football League -- a four-team league playing a six-game schedule -- are the only remaining pro leagues. The success of recent exports such as Cameron Wake (Miami) and Stefan Logan (Pittsburgh) -- both former B.C. Lions -- has shown that CFL players can thrive in the NFL.

    Ticat general manager Bob O'Billovich says the evolution of the American game is also making CFL players more attractive.

    "When you look at the style of play in the U.S now, in both college and the pros, teams are throwing the ball a lot more than they ever did in the past," O'Billovich said, citing the popularity of the spread offence. "Some of the NFL teams are going for the smaller, quicker guys rather than the big, bulky body-type guys. We've been playing with faster guys at most positions for years."

    While O'Billovich says he doesn't mind losing players to the NFL -- "you can't fault them for wanting to give it a shot" -- there are those around the CFL who have concerns.

    "It says good things about our league that there are great players up here and people recognize that," Saskatchewan Roughriders' president-CEO Jim Hopson said this week after losing Chick to the Indianapolis Colts. "I would like to see it be clean -- you have a contract, you finish it and then you go. I'm not sure if that is in the best interest of the CFL at this point."

    But Ticat scout Richard Wade, who scouted current Ticat starters DeAndra' Cobb and Marquay McDaniel among others, says there is an upside to the option year.

    "For every player we send down south to a healthy NFL contract we get 20 additional prospects who will consider playing in the CFL. From my experience, you see the better agents viewing this route as a legitimate avenue to get a player's career advanced, and thus the league gets a better level of competition in the long run," Wade said in an e-mail.

    "And more and more the players see it as a real chance to play now and still live the NFL dream. Replacing players has become better as a result of the flow."
    Richard Wade scouted, worked out, and signed Chris Wilson and Cam Wake two players who made the jump from the CFL to the NFL successfully, he is sort of a CFL scout/guru who has the eye for talent and he has a great point, it is hard to convince American College Football players to give the CFL a try, but as there is more CFL to NFL cross pollination the CFL can attract those better, more gifted players to give the CFL a shot

    The CFL won't make any player wealthy, the #3 overall pick in 2009, Jamall Lee took a shot at the NFL as an UDFA in Carolina last preseason because even if he made the practice squad, his salary would be 5k a week, in the CFL he entire salary would have been 50,000..Canadian Dollars.

    But that is sort of what makes the CFL fun imho, these guys love to play football the money is good, but for a 18 game season it really doesn't pay that well.

    The latest nugget on CFL DPOY and Colts signee John Chick, he had as many reps at 225 as Dimitri Tsoumpas at the 06 NFL Combine...30 reps at 6'6, that dude is strong as an ox and ran a 4.61...the colts got a gem imho.

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    Stevie Baggs signed with the Cardinals and they run a 3-4, but he is a decent enough prospect with a bit of a burst, more of one than last season's Terrious George:

    Short version:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sq5X4yFUrw"]YouTube- Saskatchewan Roughriders Stevie Baggs highlights - November 22, 2009 West Final vs. Calgary[/ame]

    Long version (eegads bring on the NFL preseason..please?)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNj93ZUeLi8"]YouTube- Stevie Baggs & Hyped Up[/ame]

    Fast forward to the 50 second mark,

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    As for Dolphins specific information, this is a little nugget:

    MoveTheSticks @Adam_Schefter Great TE year... Poor interior OL
    group. After Idaho OG and Florida OC, it falls off drastically
    That could explain why they signed Dimitri Tsoumpas, if the interior Oline talent is subpar in this draft then it makes sense to choose who to bring into camp if the Scouts and GM like their game, that is where Tsoumpas comes into play.

    He has played 84 games in the College and in the CFL, chances are good he is a polished Guard who has nice size and strength and comes as cheaply as a 5th rd draft pick in a signing bonus sense.

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