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Trading down

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Big Red, Feb 12, 2010.

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  1. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    With the glut of talent in this year's draft it seems like a very good year to trade down. Especially if Rolando McClain and Dez Bryant are off the board. The Dolphins are in a very good position. What team wouldn't be interested in a Top Ten talent that slides to the 12th spot?

    According to the Trade Value Chart from Draft Countdown the Dolphins would need to move back to about the 20th spot to pick up another 2nd round pick. Its a little outdated but its a good jumping off point.

    http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php
    So the Texans have the 20th pick. I could see them trading up to get CJ Spiller. That would solve a lot problems for them on offense. Then the Dolphins could still draft Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, Jason Pierre-Paul, Brandon Graham, Dan Williams, Jared Odrick, Brian Price, Terrence Cody, Brandon LaFell, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Spikes, or Sean Weatherspoon in the 1st round.

    F.Y.I. The Falcons have the 19th pick and the Bengals have the 21st. Either of them might be interested in moving up to the 12th spot.

    Also we do not have a 5th round pick. I am sure there are a number of trade scenarios where we could get that pick back. What do you think? What other trades could the Dolphins make to add an extra pick or two?
     
  2. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Just came up with another scenario from a different thread.

    The Titans have the 16th pick. I could see them trading up to get Jason Pierre-Paul. Then the Dolphins would pick up an extra 3rd round pick and still be able to draft Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, Brandon Graham, Dan Williams, Jared Odrick, Brian Price, Terrence Cody, Brandon LaFell, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Spikes, or Sean Weatherspoon in the 1st round.
     
  3. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I could definitely see a scenario in which we trade down. Especially, if the FO have their sights set on someone like Weatherspoon. I'm not against it necessarily, assuming McClain is gone by #12. But, if McClain is still there and we don't take him, I'll be extremely disappointed.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd love to pick up an extra second round pick.
     
  5. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    I believe trading down in the 1st is more likely than trading down in the 2nd but trading down in the 2nd would be my preference. If we gave the Ravens or the Cardinals our 2nd round pick we could get their 2nd and an extra 3rd.
     
  6. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I think it all just depends on who's on the board, and how the FO sees a potential pick fitting into their draft strategy/team scheme vs. falling back and gaining another pick in a later round. That's a overly simplistic view, I know. But, at the end of the day, that's what it all comes down to IMO.

    I will say this though, even though I think this FO is more motivated to trade down than to trade up, if their guy is there, I think they're gonna pull the trigger.
     
    Big Red likes this.
  7. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Most years I would agree, not this year though, there is some elite talent at the top of this draft that atleast one will fall to us. Stay where we are IMO
     
  8. phinagan

    phinagan New Member

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    If the player we want is there, we take him. We need linebackers, badly! Dez wouldn't dissapoint me either, but I can also see the wisdom of working the phones. If there is one area I think our coaching/managing staff is weak on it's making deals.
     
  9. Lane1974

    Lane1974 New Member

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    how can you possibly judge that without knowing what deals are available to be made?
     
  10. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely believe that we will trade down ... doubt it will be all the way to #20 though ...

    Goal would be to pick up another late 2, early 3d round pick - and still be able to get one of our targets in rd 1 -- just like last year with Smith.

    It will come down to who is still there - and what is being offered. I do believe McClain will still be there at 12 ... 20 though is probably pushing it. Don't think we'd drop more than 4 slots to 16 and still have a shot at him and pick up a 3d.
     
  11. phinagan

    phinagan New Member

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    It was just an opinion, I'm pretty stoked with the people we have in place. And you're right, there has to be a deal worth taking before even considering a scenario. Guess I could've worded that better?
     
  12. m ino

    m ino New Member

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    i thought this f.o made a heck of a deal to bring in fasano and ayodele(sp)from dallas for a fourth.also thought they made a good deal in trade for satele and that lil back we sent to philly.i didnt care for some of the money deals handed out to some players but overall as far as the draft deals go im fairly pleased.
     
  13. phinagan

    phinagan New Member

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    Those were good starts, truthfully it's hard to deal when the cupboard was as bare as the one they inherited... I think to start the only way to establish any credibility is to draft well then as those picks mature they become valuable assets to not only our team but others which in turn inspires deals. Yes?
     
  14. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This year is definitely a good year to have multiple 2nd rounders. However, one of our 2nd rounders last year and our 3rd round pick sure haven't added up to much thus far.

    How different would the 2009 Dolphins been had they selected Clint Sintim and Jared Cook as opposed to Pat White and Patrick Turner?
     
  15. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    And I couldn't disagree with you any more with the Akin
    situation.Great person but doesn't belong starting
     
  16. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Or being pro active and moving up the few spaces ahead of White to grab a pro bowl free safety with 9 interceptions this his rookie season
     
  17. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    personally, I would rather have Graham or E Thomas at around 20 then Ro McClain at 12.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    J Gresham makes sense for us he fills a need and this is a deepish draft for OLB/DE types.

    Imho Jason Worilds at #43 could be as good as Graham at #12, Austen Lang with our #4 pick could be a really good NFL player as well.

    But in this draft, Jermaine Gresham uniquely fits our needs and draft position.
     
    ncdolfan likes this.
  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    As always, the problem with moving down is in having another player at your spot that another team covets. Who at 12 would that be? If its Bryant or McClain we just pull the trigger on them and be happy. If they are both gone, who might still be around that a team needs that may not be around later?

    Im having some trouble seeing anyone in particular. Texans going after Spiller maybe, but imo they need a short yardage back more than Spiller - like a Toby Gerhart in the 3rd. First round I think they need to look at defense, either the line or backfield.

    Joe Haden falling to us may be the most beneficial - either the Titans or Falcons could really use him.

    I dont see anyone else trading up to get Pierre-Paul, I think hes overhyped.
     
  20. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    There are a ton of players that some team might want to trade up to get. You mentioned Joe Haden and CJ Spiller. Neither would fill a glaring need for the Dolphins and both are certainly worthy of the #12 spot.

    Jared Odrick, Dan Williams, and Brian Price are all worthy of the #12 spot and might not make it out of the Top 15.

    In addition to those guys you also have the quarterbacks Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen. Teams are always looking for franchise QB and those are the top two candidates right now.

    Left tackles are always sought after so somebody might want to trade up to get Bryan Bulaga, Trent Williams, or Anthony Davis. I would not be surprised if the Colts made a move to get a left tackle. Its unlikely that they would move all the way up to #12 but you never know.

    Pass rushers are also sought after so you never know who might be coveting Derrick Morgan, Brandon Graham, Carlos Dunlap, Everson Griffen, Ricky Sapp, Sergio Kindle, or even Jason Pierre-Paul. You may not be JPP's biggest fan but one man's trash is another man's treasure.

    I could see the Steelers trading up to get Mike Iupati who could be gone by #18. The Bengals could trade up to get Golden Tate who might not make it to #21. The Seahawks, Giants, or 49ers might want to move up a couple spots to get Earl Thomas.
     
  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    You list out some of the biggest reasons people wont trade - there are lots of players out there. So what if you dont get JPP, you wait and get Kindle, Graham without having to give up another pick in the process.

    I dont see anyone trading up for a WR, OL or DL personally.

    Clausen and Bradford will be lucky to make it out of the top 5, let alone till 12. If they do, I have seriously overestimated the ability of multiple NFL franchises.

    Every people love to talk about trading down, and it usually never happens. Im just not seeing all that many people who are so head and shoulders above the rest that teams will throw picks at us.

    Maybe it happens, I bet not.
     
  22. sergiomiguel2

    sergiomiguel2 New Member

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    idk guys
    you are all being very hateful on 2 guys that were ROOKIES!!!!
    Pat White has a lot of potential if he can just get his hand around the BALLLL
    but look what he did against NE, there is potential, it has to all come together, but once it does he provides a great threat on the field

    Patrick Turner - he is a 1st year receiver who once again, is a 1st year receiver
    Receivers are the rawest talent coming out of college, i have no idea why,I guess all they do is run flies or just circles around inferior cb's, but they gota start to learn better route running skills in college, its baffling!
    but he just like every other prospect has route running problems that comes with time and learning

    give them time, next year if you see absolutely noooo progression, then yes u can panic and freak out, but until then....
     
  23. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    First, welcome to the site sergiomiguel2. Good to have you on board. BTW, I read your thread re; McClain, and I thought you asked some pretty thought provoking questions. :up:

    But, and with all due respect...who said anything "hateful" of Pat White and Pat Turner here? I re-read the whole thread and saw nothing hateful. One poster simply questioned how those two picks might have been better invested. And, I think that's a totally reasonable point of view.

    Am I missing something?
     
  24. sergiomiguel2

    sergiomiguel2 New Member

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    O yea good point
    I probably should appologize for that
    I just keep reading everywhere...well besides here haha about how they are busts and how they were wasted picks...I kinda expressed my feelings without saying that

    my bad
     
  25. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    No worries...it's all good bro. And again...welcome to the site. :knucks:
     
  26. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    You made me realize something. The more picks you have the better because you are going to miss. Nobody nails 100% of their draft picks.
     
  27. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Trading down is not always likely for a number of reasons. Maybe you cannot find a trading partner. Maybe you run out of time to make a deal. Or maybe the player you covet is still on the board so you pick him. However it is always a possibility. With so much time between now and the draft its only natural to consider the possibility and if it makes sense. :up:
     
  28. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Don't forget. We traded down last year and drafted Sean Smith in the 2nd round.
     
  29. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I heard somewhere there's likely to be more trades this draft because of it spanning three days (more time to negotiate deals).

    Actually BR, I think we traded up to get Smith. :headscratch:
     
  30. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Good point. We will have more time to make a deal after the 1st round is over. I would love to trade down in the 2nd round and pick up at least a 5th round pick.

    Nope. We traded #56 to the Colts which they used to take Fili Moala. Then we took Sean Smith at #61 and Chris Clemons at #165.
     
  31. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Here is another scenario.

    The Giants have needs at defensive end, defensive tackle, safety, and inside linebacker. They might want to move up in the 2nd round to draft Corey Wootton, Mount Cody, Nate Allen, or Brandon Spikes. Then the Dolphins would drop back four spots and pick up a 5th rounder.
     
  32. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Trade downs are always a nice scenario but seem to rarely happen for us. The best scenario for a trade down IMO is a situation like claussen or Bradford falling out of the top ten and then a team like Minnesota or Arizona looking to trade up for a qb to groom or replace an existing qb. The other scenario that would encourage a trade up is a DE or LT slipping a but further then expected. I think those guys that play the premium positions seem to be most often worth the additional cost in money and picks and the easiest to justify.
     
    NyPhinfan likes this.
  33. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree on the trade down problems. Every year so many just say trade down and get more picks. It does rarely happen especially with us. Just as many want to get extra picks..just as many don't want to give up picks. Unless someone falls to us that noone would have dreamt being there...we might just jump on that guy because he is that good.
     
  34. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think at least half those guys wouldn't be worth trading up for and could be had mid to late first round.

    You're still going to have to pay a decent amount of money to the #12 pick, not to mention giving up a solid draft pick, so I think a team would have to be absolutely smitten to make any type of major jump. In that case, I'd think you would see more action for the pick for someone of sliding value, like a Haden or perhaps Bryant.

    It would be interesting if we consummated a trade for Boldin before the draft, and then saw Bryant slide to 12. That would make for an interesting 10 minutes.
     

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